Serum vs Dune 2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
nichttuntun
KVRist
477 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:19 am

Hi. When the focus is on wavetable synthesis and one already owns all the Wolfgang Palm PPG stuff and a hardware BLOFELD... is this person in a real need for SERUM? What do you think? Thank you in advance. Cheers.

Cinebient
KVRAF
3609 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:16 am

You only need a Serum if you have a Virus :D
No one can decide that for you and you will now hear just every ones favorite synth....
So i say....Icarus is the best wavetable synth :)

chk071
KVRAF
17016 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:31 am

nichttuntun wrote:Hi. When the focus is on wavetable synthesis and one already owns all the Wolfgang Palm PPG stuff and a hardware BLOFELD... is this person in a real need for SERUM? What do you think? Thank you in advance. Cheers.
Why do we need several VA synths? Yet, we all own more than one. :) And, with wavetable synths, they all feature different wavetables as well, in addition to sounding different, so, there's an answer, if it matters to you. Massive, Largo and Codex all sound different to me.

Saying that, the biggest gripe i have with Serum is that it doesn't interpolate between wavetables. That's an absolute must-have feature for me in a wavetable synthesizer. If i wanted a wavetable synthesizer, i'd probably pass on both. Dune 2, because it only supports wavetables with up to 32 waves, and Serum because it doesn't interpolate. Again, i only can point to the IMO hopelessly underrated Largo. I really dunno why there's so little talk about it. It totally kicks the ass of 99% of other synthesizers out there, both sound and feature wise.

nichttuntun
KVRist
477 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:30 am

chk071 wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:Hi. When the focus is on wavetable synthesis and one already owns all the Wolfgang Palm PPG stuff and a hardware BLOFELD... is this person in a real need for SERUM? What do you think? Thank you in advance. Cheers.
Why do we need several VA synths? Yet, we all own more than one. :) And, with wavetable synths, they all feature different wavetables as well, in addition to sounding different, so, there's an answer, if it matters to you. Massive, Largo and Codex all sound different to me.

Saying that, the biggest gripe i have with Serum is that it doesn't interpolate between wavetables. That's an absolute must-have feature for me in a wavetable synthesizer. If i wanted a wavetable synthesizer, i'd probably pass on both. Dune 2, because it only supports wavetables with up to 32 waves, and Serum because it doesn't interpolate. Again, i only can point to the IMO hopelessly underrated Largo. I really dunno why there's so little talk about it. It totally kicks the ass of 99% of other synthesizers out there, both sound and feature wise.
Hi.
We don't need them we want them. And the only argument for having another synth is it is sounding different or is capable of something the others aren't.

You are really pushing LARGO here. Is LARGO capable of something the amazing PPG synth of the inventor himself Wolfgang Palm can't do? Or is it sounding completely different? Cheers.

chk071
KVRAF
17016 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:33 am

nichttuntun wrote: We don't need them we want them.
Arguable. I wouldn't be able to make music with one synth alone, and that probably also holds true for the majority of others. Especially with so many one trick pony devices out there, which can do one thing pretty good, but suck for others. In my experience, there's really very few synths with a sweet spot for about anything really. More so with analog synths. Not so much with soft synths.
nichttuntun wrote: You are really pushing LARGO here. Is LARGO capable of something the amazing PPG synth of the inventor himself Wolfgang Palm can't do? Or is it sounding completely different? Cheers.
Yes. It can interpolate between the waveforms, for example. And, apart from having the PPG wavetables, it also has the Q's, and Microwave's wavetables. The architecture is also different, and it has unison onboard. Also, different filters. I don't think it sounds completely different, because i think all the Waldorf/PPG synths share a certain vibe, but, it surely allows for some different flavours, and is overall different enough, that there won't be too much overlapping. As far as i know, the point of the PPG plugins was to closely emulate features and operations, while Largo is something separate.

EnGee
KVRAF
4765 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from New Zealand

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:59 am

If you have Blofeld, then you don't need Largo.

For Serum or Dune 2 or ..... etc. I want them all! But it's not practical or reasonable to have them all! So, I just try to choose some of them and to ignore the others! After all, are we using all we buy? We should IMO ;)
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chk071
KVRAF
17016 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:01 am

Oh, i totally missed that he already owns a Blofeld. You might be right then. :) Unless he embraces the superior operation via plugin GUI. :hihi: And... 256 voices vs. 25 on the Blofeld. *cough cough*

nichttuntun
KVRist
477 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:50 am

Thank you. Ah okay I forgot that LARGO is WALDORF. I love the BLOFELD. 25 voices... it's okay for some bass keys and some upper 7th+13th chords and such :D
The strength of this little wonder is that you can make extremely evolving and deep layered sounds which are so thick that you often just have to press a single key to fire up a whole sound landscape. I am used to the matrix of WALDORF...I bought a PULSE in the nineties. I do not miss anything but I do understand that the BLOFELD can a bit stressy for beginners :o

One question... what do you mean by "interpolating between wavetables"? Do you mean you can use two wavetables at once via two OSCs? Cheers

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
13851 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:17 am

nichttuntun wrote:Hi. When the focus is on wavetable synthesis and one already owns all the Wolfgang Palm PPG stuff and a hardware BLOFELD... is this person in a real need for SERUM? What do you think? Thank you in advance. Cheers.
Serum can do some particularly crisp high fidelity sounds. It does have it's strength. Myself, I find Serum a bit sterile sounding and I had to put in too much effort to get results I was satisfied with. I ended up getting Icarus when I was deciding between Icarus and Serum.

I also have Wavemapper 2 and Infinite Pro by Wolfgang Palm. That is more than enough wavetable synthesis for me. Also, the PPG synths do a better job of resynthesis than Serum. I would much prefer using the PPG synths (I also have Phonem) for making soundscapes and evolving sounds than Serum. So of course it depends some on what your musical objectives are.

nichttuntun
KVRist
477 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:29 am

Yes the re-synthesis is great in PPG INFINITE Pro. Sterile sounding can be an advantage because you have all the free character options when mixing. There are so many character EQs, saturation tools or compressors with different character engines that a neutral or sterile instrument is a prefect base for own sculpting after recording. it's harder to eliminate a strong base character of a synth in the mixing process of you don't like it or it simply doesn't fit the mix. Cheers

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pdxindy
KVRAF
13851 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:06 am

nichttuntun wrote:Sterile sounding can be an advantage because you have all the free character options when mixing. There are so many character EQs, saturation tools or compressors with different character engines that a neutral or sterile instrument is a prefect base for own sculpting after recording. it's harder to eliminate a strong base character of a synth in the mixing process of you don't like it or it simply doesn't fit the mix. Cheers
For me, Neutral and Sterile are two different things... I agree about neutral having its advantage in the way you describe. Serum is not in that category for me. YMMV

chk071
KVRAF
17016 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:28 am

nichttuntun wrote: One question... what do you mean by "interpolating between wavetables"? Do you mean you can use two wavetables at once via two OSCs? Cheers
With interpolate i mean that the waveforms in a wavetable seamlessly morph into one another. Meaning that there are intermediate forms, when you go from one waveform to the other. IIRC, the PPG doesn't do that, neither does Serum. In Largo, the modulation of the wavetable index is a hardcoded oscillator feature, and i make vast use of it, because it is great for evolving pad sounds, and movement. Blofeld does that too, of course.

kokotte
KVRian
698 posts since 17 Sep, 2014

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:41 pm

if Icarus, rapid or dune2 could have the transmod system or the serum's lfo & workflow, they will be so much better.
serum & dune2 are really differents beasts, they have their own place in a production days.
if i must choose between them, i would take serum with a splice rent, test it some month, and wait for dune3, or
buy icarus or rapid and wait for some workflows improvements.

v1o
KVRian
1090 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:43 pm

chk071 wrote:
nichttuntun wrote: We don't need them we want them.
Arguable. I wouldn't be able to make music with one synth alone, and that probably also holds true for the majority of others. Especially with so many one trick pony devices out there, which can do one thing pretty good, but suck for others. In my experience, there's really very few synths with a sweet spot for about anything really. More so with analog synths. Not so much with soft synths.
nichttuntun wrote: You are really pushing LARGO here. Is LARGO capable of something the amazing PPG synth of the inventor himself Wolfgang Palm can't do? Or is it sounding completely different? Cheers.
Yes. It can interpolate between the waveforms, for example. And, apart from having the PPG wavetables, it also has the Q's, and Microwave's wavetables. The architecture is also different, and it has unison onboard. Also, different filters. I don't think it sounds completely different, because i think all the Waldorf/PPG synths share a certain vibe, but, it surely allows for some different flavours, and is overall different enough, that there won't be too much overlapping. As far as i know, the point of the PPG plugins was to closely emulate features and operations, while Largo is something separate.
What is so special about the PPG, Q and Microwave wavetables? They always get brought up in discussions about wavetable synths. You would think modern sound designers are no longer imaginative enough to come up with good wavetables.

And is it just me or does having millions and millions of wavetables not really amount to much.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

EnGee
KVRAF
4765 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from New Zealand

Re: Serum vs Dune 2

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:52 pm

chk071 wrote:Oh, i totally missed that he already owns a Blofeld. You might be right then. :) Unless he embraces the superior operation via plugin GUI. :hihi: And... 256 voices vs. 25 on the Blofeld. *cough cough*
Well, personally, I have exchanged the Blofeld keys for Nektar P4 as my main controller. I still have Largo and use it from time to time, but I use Dune 2 and Massive more and even more these days I use Thor and Europa in Reason.

Serum is a great synth. I had it for about 2 months (stopped the subscription). I could make some few presets that I like. Between Serum and Dune 2, I chose Dune 2.
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