Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Elektronisch
KVRAF
2227 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Post Sun May 13, 2018 11:40 am

Bathrobe wrote:
Elektronisch wrote: Right now avenger is a luxury product because to use it you have to have a screen that is at least 27 inch size
I can´t confirm that observation.
I have a rmbp 15" and in every resolution ranging from 1920x1200 to 1024x640 Avenger looks crisp and very usable.
then you must have eagle eyes, good for you :tu: i cant confirm your observation because avenger is unusable at any resolution on 23 inch screen

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2227 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.0 update with new cross FM mode

Post Sun May 13, 2018 11:44 am

msvs wrote:1.3.5 is available in the next days, we update the demo version then, too

but what about laptops? you still cant use on laptop of any size even if there would be 8k resolutio
On a 4k screen or even a 8k you can magnify Avenger to a bigger scale (150% or 200% size) which will result in an ultra crisp and sharp look. I run it on 120% and my viewing distance is ca 1m from the screen. Everything is visible very clear.
So what that you can magnify Avenger? can you magnify the display screen so avenger would be readable from comfortable distances ? I dont think you understand the case at all.

Look as example, phones today have high resolution (Samsung galaxy S9 has a 1440 x 2960 resolution display). But people still go to cinemas, watch movies on big screen tv because you can see more detail on a bigger screen, its not about resolution.

Im gonna ask you a simple question, when does Avenger looks bigger on 23 inch screen or 27?

Because as i said before your VST plugin is unreadable here, its just too big with too much stuff with small font cramped in. Its like reading a text document with 1 size font on 5 inch screen (yeah maybe exhagerated, but i hope you finaly understand what i mean) :lol:

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2227 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.0 update with new cross FM mode

Post Sun May 13, 2018 11:52 am

bmanic wrote:
Elektronisch wrote:
bmanic wrote:Manuel is right though. All of this GUI size discussion has happened before, when we went from CRT screens to flat screens and from 1024x768 resolution to full HD.

Every single company that were early adopters of proper GUI sizes for HD resolutions had a huge advantage. We are definitely at a cross roads to higher resolutions and bigger screens.

The scaling works just fine in my opinion. I'm running it on 85% scaling. While it is slightly annoying I still understand the decisions.

Could the UI be organized a bit better? Yes, definitely. Is it badly done/organized? No, no way.
Resolution is not the main problem here. But the size vs how much stuff packed in screen. I can put resolution to 1440p but problem still persist. Onlt when i connected my 43 inch tv i was able to have a proper expierience.

Ill try to explain. When you see object small to see it well you need it to magnify it. Resolution does not magnify them, you have to use a magifying glass or in real word scenarion a bigger screen. Im using 23 inch monitor wich is perfectly fine for all vsts except for well Avenger.
Ah now I understand what you are saying. That the GUI elements are too small in relation to the overall size of the plugin window, meaning you can never get a good sized knob/text, no matter what the scaling (and going to 200% doesn't help as it requires a huge resolution that makes the knobs small anyhow).

Yeah, I can relate to that. Some of the text sizes and detailed editing parts of Avenger are indeed made for "young eyes only". I'm struggling a bit with this as well.

So yeah, I understand your point now and do agree with you. It could definitely be better but at the moment it's not catastrophic.
Happy to see some one understands what im trying to say :)

chuna
KVRist
32 posts since 15 Feb, 2009

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Sun May 13, 2018 3:34 pm

Hi Manuel,

Is there a way to imitate the Moog multidrive sound that is produced by the Subsequent 37 in Avenger?

BTW - I think the work that you guys have done on this softsynth is outrageously good. Thank you.
Last edited by chuna on Tue May 15, 2018 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

ljpro1
KVRist
86 posts since 19 Mar, 2003 from Chicago, IL USA

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Sun May 13, 2018 6:18 pm

How to get 1.3.5 . . . . I went to my accounts and the download says 1.3.4

edit - . . . just saw that it's not up yet . . so never mind . . :D

tapiodmitriyevich
KVRist
312 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Sun May 13, 2018 8:02 pm

Avenger GUI is no doubt not optimal. Lots of wasted space to the left. And the font is awful, does perform badly on scaling and low res. Probably works well on 8k monitors, otherwise, Cleartype (or whatever Antialiasing technique) mess. I say they create a great instrument and are not too talented as for GUI.
The GUI and their commitment to EDM are the biggest harm to the instrument. But it can survive ;-)

dune_rave
KVRian
1142 posts since 23 Jun, 2006 from Hungary

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Sun May 13, 2018 9:22 pm

Synth1 and Dexed GUI is also not optimal, but many use them

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2227 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Sun May 13, 2018 10:01 pm

dune_rave wrote:Synth1 and Dexed GUI is also not optimal, but many use them
Sure they are not ment for 4k screens but hey at least they fit well on full HD and doesnt matter what screen you have, you can use on 11 inch or 43 inch. Avenger, well no, screen size matters, not the resolution.

User avatar
msvs
KVRian
1179 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Sun May 13, 2018 11:34 pm

I begin to think, you just need some glasses 8)

last word on this topic: the GUI of Avenger won't change. We have currently no plans in this direction, because its good for 99,8% of our customers.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2227 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Sun May 13, 2018 11:43 pm

msvs wrote:I begin to think, you just need some glasses 8)
Im wearing them for the last 11 years all the time (as a matter of fact even longer if counting wearing only at school or when using computer) :)

Trancit
KVRAF
1687 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.0 update with new cross FM mode

Post Sun May 13, 2018 11:56 pm

Elektronisch wrote: then you must have eagle eyes, good for you :tu: i cant confirm your observation because avenger is unusable at any resolution on 23 inch screen
You should consider buying some glasses...

I am using Avenger at 75% scaling on a Samsung 23" Monitor @ 1920x1080 points and it is very usuable...
It might not have the sharpness of a 4k but everything is nice and clear...

Using glasses for work at the PC though...

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2227 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.0 update with new cross FM mode

Post Sun May 13, 2018 11:59 pm

Trancit wrote:
Elektronisch wrote: then you must have eagle eyes, good for you :tu: i cant confirm your observation because avenger is unusable at any resolution on 23 inch screen
You should consider buying some glasses...

I am using Avenger at 75% scaling on a Samsung 23" Monitor @ 1920x1080 points and it is very usuable...
It might not have the sharpness of a 4k but everything is nice and clear...

Using glasses for work at the PC though...
Elektronisch wrote:
msvs wrote:I begin to think, you just need some glasses 8)
Im wearing them for the last 11 years all the time (as a matter of fact even longer if counting wearing only at school or when using computer) :)

keel
KVRian
702 posts since 27 Oct, 2004 from Inside the kick drum

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 12:11 am

Fyi, GUI is the only Reason, why I didnt buy the Avenger. It is so huge and scaling it down, knobs etc are tiny and blurred or something. Lovely sounding synth tho.

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
790 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 12:56 am

GUI is super crispy looking here on my Nvidia 1050gtx with 4k and also the fastest retina plugin, that I am aware of. Vstgui normally is not gpu accelerated on macos (drawn thru quartz2d which Apple refuses to improve), that's why lot of even Retina made plugins/GUI are pretty slow regarding its guis nowadays (see new zebra on 4k for example). Not so avenger. I really appreciate that Rene did this huge effort to provide us such a modern GUI code.

The only headache I had so far was quite a bit instability as soon as multiple opening/closing is involved, and also stange (maybe denormal) and heavy short cpu spikes in the audio engine (I think it's inside the Osc section). Seems that the first problem is addressed in the new update now.

tapiodmitriyevich
KVRist
312 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 3:43 am

The more vertically stretched font is not perfect. Fonts where horizontal/vertical dimensions are more the same, are better to read. Screenshot is from a 90% view, which is some very realistic view on a 1920x1200 resolution. It's perfection when we look from a low level perspective; but we've seen much cleaner UIs/Fonts. Im am not criticizing the organizing of the UI, which works well for me (only complaint is the preset/global fx space to the left, which I don't need to see always).

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