Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
tapekiller
KVRer
21 posts since 6 Nov, 2014

Post Mon May 14, 2018 4:00 am

The only downside of the ui that I can think of is the preset browser (the content tab).
I would love to see something more similar to the files tab where I can see more categories without having to scroll up and down every time I load a new istance and the zoom effect makes it look "old" and, combined with how the preset selection looks, it reminds me of those 2000s era browser flash games main menus.
Every other aspect that I don't particularly like can be probably fixed with skins, for example if I use a minimal looking one on smaller screens it will be less likely to have ugly artifacts in areas that were originally full of details, which also happens to text due to antialiasing and how the font scales down. But that's way less important because once you understand what a knob does less readability doesn't hold productivity back (like preset selection and navigation would)

The synth sounds amazing, even if it's really EDM friendly it's very versatile and perhaps it's the best purchase I've ever made.
Although I have a really big problem with how the unison works (especially with even numbers, especially 2): it's not centered, meaning that if I enable a two voice unison it basically adds one voice, and detuning only moves one voice down instead of moving both equally from the center, so the result is a sound that has to be fine tuned because it ends up being pitched down.
And sadly there is more, as long as there is no panning both sides are (obviously) reproducing the same sound, but when I start increasing the width I can start hearing something really odd:
-Left side plays the main voice, with no detuning
-Right side plays all voices together
This can be easily be tested with a two-voices unison, but also happens with 4 and 6. Incidentally:
-Left side plays a mono unison of all voices minus the last one
-Right side plays a mono unison of all voices
I would kill to have a normal unison that simply moves all voices around the centre (so the overall sound doesn't go out of tune) and where the pan simply moves the single voices on each side.
The only way to make a sound like this is by using the chorder and manually creating a unison of two voices but I can only make strictly mono sounds, which in many cases it's not what I'm after.
An example of a normal unison is in Harmor by image-line (where you can select detuning, pan and even phase of the single voices) or even in Sylenth1, and being able to select it with a small on/off button near the voice section would be a really welcome addition for everyone that makes reese sounds (in d&b or any other genre really).
I'm definitely not asking to change the unison (because that would imply having different sounding presets and as I've read before in this thread you'd never do that for obvious reasons), I'm just expressing how I feel like the unison department, and how there is room for improvement in that regard, even if that means adding something "old" like classic unison voicing found in many other synths.
Comes without saying that I would hold my producer friends at gunpoint to convince them ditching other synths and buy Avenger because of how good it is (and how active its development is, which I do appreciate a lot) :D
Last edited by tapekiller on Mon May 14, 2018 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

tapiodmitriyevich
KVRist
312 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 4:11 am

Oohh, I wasn't aware we can define the shape curve not only for macro buttons, but basically for every modulation source; nice. The shape window is well integrated into the mod matrix, thanks!

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
790 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 4:41 am

I agree that the unison could be improved. A really good unison can produce ridiculous good sound, e.g. Jupiter-8, Juno-106, Melda MPS, Dune 2:

For instance this is missing:
Image

Also missing is free running vibrato on unison voices.

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msvs
KVRian
1179 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 5:32 am

Also missing is free running vibrato on unison voices.
strange, we have this... "global" on the unison or "independent" on every unisono voice with its own random phase

jmg8
KVRAF
1708 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 10:24 am

Agreed that unison needs some work.


Other nice additions to the above mentioned would be:

1. Wavetable position spread for unison voices.
2. Volume slope, so we can have the centre voices louder that the outer voices (or vice versa)
3. NSWEEP spread for unison voices.
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goleat
KVRist
206 posts since 24 Jan, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Mon May 14, 2018 12:06 pm

There are at least 5 ways to make unison in Avenger that give different results. It's just a matter of trying and combining the techniques.

The first is to assign the number of voices you want and move the V-Saw knob and mix to taste.

Another alternative would be to use the independent vibrato and adjust the amount and speed of it to taste.

You can also stack the "AA Vintage Chorus" effect several times until you achieve the desired effect. And the best part is that it does not consume a lot of computer power !!!

Another way to make a unison (a dirty one, but fun) is to modulate the frequency of an oscillator with the "noise smooth" wave in small quantities. Note that you must have the V-Saw knob set to 0 and the mix slider to the maximum (or some considerable value) to hear the result.

You can also use the chorder to obtain a unison with more presence and "control", but it requires more power from the computer.

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
790 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 12:00 am

msvs wrote:
Also missing is free running vibrato on unison voices.
strange, we have this... "global" on the unison or "independent" on every unisono voice with its own random phase
Sure, I am aware of this, but don't these individual vibratos always restart with every note? That's what I meant.

That said I already love the sound of avenger of course. I only meant that some synths still may sound a tiny bit more exciting, or let's say more retro, when it comes to unison, thanks to the kind of spreading curve, not sounding like trancy supersaw on strong settings, and maybe some random modulation or pitch instability.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2412 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 12:14 am

Hanz Meyzer wrote:I only meant that some synths still may sound a tiny bit more exciting, or let's say more retro, when it comes to unison, thanks to the kind of spreading curve, not sounding like trancy supersaw on strong settings, and maybe some random modulation or pitch instability.
Ah, that's interesting. I always leave off unison for any analogue-sounding patches... perhaps this is the reason why? I'd be interested in a more vintage-sounding unison option if it were achievable.
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msvs
KVRian
1179 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 12:48 am

you have to detune by hand!? (with the chorder module). Thats how it worked back then... or a Chorus / Ensemble FX, because analog voices were very rare and expensive to build.

@HanzMeyzer
Avenger is so flexible, so can program your own modulating Unisono. We dont need a knob for every little feature. You can do it, when you need it, with a bit of creativeness.

attached:Here is a 5x unisono with free running detune as a starting point for you
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jmg8
KVRAF
1708 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 2:49 am

Here is a really big sounding unison using the random mods so every note has a different detune.
Use the macro "Spread"
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noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2412 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 3:14 am

Manuel, yes using the Chorder is exactly what I usually do for this task. Cheers!
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http://www.afterschoolvideoclub.com/
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Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
790 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 5:20 am

msvs wrote:you have to detune by hand!? (with the chorder module). Thats how it worked back then... or a Chorus / Ensemble FX, because analog voices were very rare and expensive to build.

@HanzMeyzer
Avenger is so flexible, so can program your own modulating Unisono. We dont need a knob for every little feature. You can do it, when you need it, with a bit of creativeness.

attached:Here is a 5x unisono with free running detune as a starting point for you
Thanks!

chuna
KVRist
32 posts since 15 Feb, 2009

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 5:26 am

Hi Manuel,

Is there a way to imitate the Moog multidrive sound that is produced by the Subsequent 37 in Avenger?

BTW - I think the work that you guys have done on this softsynth is outrageously good. Thank you.

tapekiller
KVRer
21 posts since 6 Nov, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 5:32 am

goleat wrote: You can also use the chorder to obtain a unison with more presence and "control", but it requires more power from the computer.
And you can't have stereo.
right now the only way to achieve a normal two voice unison with stereo width is using two different oscillators, which requires you to copy the same oscillator twice and whenever you tweak a parameter you have to manually match them, which sometimes might not even work.
Right now we can't dial in numeric knob values, and neither we can copy/paste them.

tapekiller
KVRer
21 posts since 6 Nov, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - free 1.3.5 update with new features

Post Tue May 15, 2018 5:47 am

msvs wrote:Thats how it worked back then... or a Chorus / Ensemble FX, because analog voices were very rare and expensive to build.
Not very sure about how that would matter in a modern synth (if it was even aimed at my comment, sad that this is the the only answer I can get from it), but my gripe with the unison is that, as it is, it's not as versatile as the whole synth actually is, because there are really cool things like resynthesys and granular mode that are very good and quite flexible, yet there are things (like unison) that IMHO could use some diversification, as it can have a really huge impact on the sound and workflow.
As I said a comment above, we still can't copy/paste values nor dial values in, so replicating the same oscillator can be tedious if we already have set macros to "fill the gap" the current unison has by making a unison with two oscillators.
Be aware that I'm not depreciating the synth, I'm just expressing my opinion as a customer that doesn't want see wasted potential in a feature that I (and I'm sure many others too) use a lot.

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