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Yep

I'd like the drum window to zoom out so it looked bigger and had more functions.

If it became a full-on drum machine, so much the better.

This will open opportunities for more preset sales too.

I'm not hassling for any of this (I'm patient), but if it went into the pipeline I'd be delighted.

Zoom-out windows might be an ergonomic solution to the "one window solution" that manuel likes.
Member 12, Studio One v6.5, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 7, Spitfire, Dune, Arturia, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys, Nektar Panorama P1, Vaporizer 2 to test out

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kevvvvv wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:44 pm I have a question for the group on drum sequencer variations.

How can I do them?
Although in theory is possible to make a lot inside that sequencer, in practice you will face so many limitations that you will instantly regret the time spend of trying to use the drums inside Avenger. If you actually produce music, that tool is simply a no-go. Better use Avenger's strong features, as for drums there are a lot of way more ergonomic solutions.

Remember, Avenger is also the tool that is used to make those delicious demos that sell the expansions. The demos have drums so the kids want the drums.

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You sound a bit pessimistic
Member 12, Studio One v6.5, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 7, Spitfire, Dune, Arturia, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys, Nektar Panorama P1, Vaporizer 2 to test out

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kevvvvv wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:07 am You sound a bit pessimistic
To my surprise most of the people on this forum/thread don't actually make commercial music (rather do it as a hobby) and is quite difficult to explain (and for them to understand) why speed matters.
It takes no more than one hour to find out if the drum section in Avenger can add value to a fast workflow (which one must have when delivering music production on schedule, which I do). And the answer is: it is not making things better.

The fact that fast preview is impossible, manual kit selection of ANY sound is impossible (restricted to replacing sounds of similar rank), importing a single drum hit into a classic osc for further processing is a no-go and many more, got me thinking: this module is geared only towards playback only. Bear with me...

What I'm trying to say: Let's say I make a song, I design the drum hits then I finish the song with the drum hits in my sequencer. I could spend hours importing them to a new drum kit in Avenger and use them in several instances (for various segments of the song) but why? Unless I have to play live with my keyboard (which I don't), I have no reason to pack my drum kit into avenger and restrict my editing freedom to a tiny editor.
So from a producer point of view putting drums inside Avenger have no use.
However, when designing a new preset pack... a whole different story. You need those drum kits like air.

Finally, when it comes to using the kits in real production situation: there is no way, a single kit will provide the needed sounds. So again, use the tiny browser to browse and (hopefully) make a working custom kit. Only to find out one hour later that you'll need to layer 2 different claps to get the sound that you need and... surprise(!) you can't do that.

So... what kind of producer are you? :)

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Member 12, Studio One v6.5, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 7, Spitfire, Dune, Arturia, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys, Nektar Panorama P1, Vaporizer 2 to test out

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sircuit wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:58 am
kevvvvv wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:07 am You sound a bit pessimistic
To my surprise most of the people on this forum/thread don't actually make commercial music (rather do it as a hobby) and is quite difficult to explain (and for them to understand) why speed matters.
It takes no more than one hour to find out if the drum section in Avenger can add value to a fast workflow (which one must have when delivering music production on schedule, which I do). And the answer is: it is not making things better.

The fact that fast preview is impossible, manual kit selection of ANY sound is impossible (restricted to replacing sounds of similar rank), importing a single drum hit into a classic osc for further processing is a no-go and many more, got me thinking: this module is geared only towards playback only. Bear with me...

What I'm trying to say: Let's say I make a song, I design the drum hits then I finish the song with the drum hits in my sequencer. I could spend hours importing them to a new drum kit in Avenger and use them in several instances (for various segments of the song) but why? Unless I have to play live with my keyboard (which I don't), I have no reason to pack my drum kit into avenger and restrict my editing freedom to a tiny editor.
So from a producer point of view putting drums inside Avenger have no use.
However, when designing a new preset pack... a whole different story. You need those drum kits like air.

Finally, when it comes to using the kits in real production situation: there is no way, a single kit will provide the needed sounds. So again, use the tiny browser to browse and (hopefully) make a working custom kit. Only to find out one hour later that you'll need to layer 2 different claps to get the sound that you need and... surprise(!) you can't do that.

So... what kind of producer are you? :)
how do you make money off your music? Is it your sole job?
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali

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ATS wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:51 am how do you make money off your music? Is it your sole job?
Mostly ghost producing for small and very small artists/DJs - not the greatest hits but nevertheless finished songs that get streamed or end up in DJ's own club playlist. Working every week on two songs, overlapped (one is at the beginning phase of production, one towards the end).
People seem to have no idea about how a big of a difference is between a 4-bar loop (sequence, or some one-button-play-all-song preset) and a fully finished song.

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sircuit wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:58 am
............. importing a single drum hit into a classic osc for further processing is a no-go .....
That's actually really easy using Melda MRecorder, see here:

https://youtu.be/HIKCnrxl3ck

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Tbh, I don´t want Avenger be turned into a drum machine...or even more turned into a drum machine...
At it´s current state, it is already too much drum machine for my liking...

Avenger in first place is a synth... and at this it should be specialized
If I need a drums, I take a drum sampler/drum machine as it is specialized for this task...

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Avenger is amazing as a drum sampler, i can't think of another sampler that offers the same features and tweakability, apart from Kontakt (which i find unusable because if its tiny, hideous interface).

I guess the only thing i miss in it is timestretch.

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Trancit wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:45 pm Tbh, I don´t want Avenger be turned into a drum machine...or even more turned into a drum machine...
At it´s current state, it is already too much drum machine for my liking...

Avenger in first place is a synth... and at this it should be specialized
If I need a drums, I take a drum sampler/drum machine as it is specialized for this task...
Agree. It is good for what it is now, but I would also like that the devs spend their time on the synth part when comes to improving avenger.
I remember vaguely Manuel mentioning that there were some ideas for a new sample/loop slicer vst with some unique twists, because the market for those kind of vsts was (and still is to some degree...) pretty empty. Of course there is stuff for the purpose of loop mangling out there, but most of the time you get it within some flagship samplers which doesn’t contribute to the usability (as well as creativity) and is simply overkill sometimes. I’m thinking of an Izotope Phatmatik alike which is straight forward and beloved by many for this reason. That’s not to say that an advanced drum editor can’t make things more spicy. It would be a good fit for a „avengers drum editor on roids“ , wouldn’t it!? :wink:
It’s been some time since he talked about that, long before avenger was released and he also emphasized that they are just fiddling with some ideas! With that in mind and seeing the progress made in avenger I wouldn’t expect a final product any time soon...

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Mr D wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:27 pm i can't think of another sampler that offers the same features and tweakability

I guess the only thing i miss in it is timestretch.
Falcon goes way beyond Avenger (with it’s fair share of known bugs here and there so at least they don’t take you by surprise).
And it takes immensely low resources compared to Avenger (because is modular, simple paches are not loading the full plugin). You feel it right away anywhere over 10 instances. I often have 30+ Falcon instances in my projects. Same number of Avenger instances wouldnt even let me start playback in a busy project. I usually use no more than 2-4 avengers in a 60+ tracks song.

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sircuit wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:46 pm ... I often have 30+ Falcon instances in my projects. Same number of Avenger instances wouldnt even let me start playback in a busy project. I usually use no more than 2-4 avengers in a 60+ tracks song.
As every Avenger instance loads with full 800-900MB it´s not a good idea to have too many Avenger instances loaded at the same time... 8)

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Trancit wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:27 pm
As every Avenger instance loads with full 800-900MB it´s not a good idea to have too many Avenger instances loaded at the same time... 8)
Wow, i didn't realize that, that's really bad news if you want to use a lot of instances.

@Manuel, could we please have an option to unload all these samples and just have a stripped down, lean and mean instance of Avenger? Maybe call it Avenger "Lite"? ;)

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Mr D wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:50 pm Wow, i didn't realize that, that's really bad news if you want to use a lot of instances.
I suppose the obvious solution consist in not using a lot of instances.

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