Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
scoplunk
KVRist
82 posts since 11 Jan, 2013

Post Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:19 am

Before I even get started, I appreciate your answer. It's your synthesizer, it's amazing and I'm sure you aren't ever going to change this. Having said that, from a logical POV, I don't understand your answer at all and here's why:
msvs wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:09 am
because an envelope length of zero is 0
If we're talking about envelopes based on time, this is true. But in this case, we're talking about envelopes that are based on bars and beats. So, a short envelope would be a 1/128 note or something like that. This sort of "start at 0" thing looks like a computer programmer did it, not a musician.
furthermore I find it much more easy to mark loop ranges with 4, 8, 16, 32 instead of 5, 9, 17 and 33
I find it just the opposite because every other piece of software that I use (I just checked Zebra and Alchemy as examples to make sure I'm not crazy) start at bar 1 - not to mention every DAW on the planet.

I have huge respect for you as a sound designer and instrument designer. These are little things. But, little things can add up. For instance, this is the only instrument I've ever seen that puts middle C at C2. Everyone else puts it either at C3 or C4. I get the feeling that you work pretty much exclusively with the instruments you've designed. That's great and makes sense. I'm just trying to point out that for those of us who move between different platforms all the time, these little eccentricities can be confusing. They aren't going to make me stop using Avenger, that's for sure, but it would be easier for me if I didn't have to recalibrate my thinking too much when I'm working with different instruments. I admit that I might be a little lazy...
Logic Pro X 10.4.6
Macbook Pro 2015
OS 10.14.5

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bmanic
KVRAF
8491 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:22 am

scoplunk wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:19 am
Before I even get started, I appreciate your answer. It's your synthesizer, it's amazing and I'm sure you aren't ever going to change this. Having said that, from a logical POV, I don't understand your answer at all and here's why:
msvs wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:09 am
because an envelope length of zero is 0
If we're talking about envelopes based on time, this is true. But in this case, we're talking about envelopes that are based on bars and beats. So, a short envelope would be a 1/128 note or something like that. This sort of "start at 0" thing looks like a computer programmer did it, not a musician.
furthermore I find it much more easy to mark loop ranges with 4, 8, 16, 32 instead of 5, 9, 17 and 33
I find it just the opposite because every other piece of software that I use (I just checked Zebra and Alchemy as examples to make sure I'm not crazy) start at bar 1 - not to mention every DAW on the planet.
I disagree. You are thinking of the Envelope as a "sequencer", thus a place in time.. but it's main purpose is not that. It is a triggered modulation source, thus you want to know how long it is running for, how many bars/beats. You don't need to know a position. Both Alchemy and Zebra, if they indeed have their envelopes starting from 1 for envelopes, do it illogically in my opinion.

Being a veteran Alchemy sound designer though I must say I've never even noticed this so obviously it hasn't bothered me all that much. :hihi:
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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msvs
KVRAF
1531 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:25 pm

so is my opinion, thx :)

scoplunk
KVRist
82 posts since 11 Jan, 2013

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:50 pm

Yes, you're right about the way I use it. I often use a mod env to move a particular control at an exact point in a phrase. If that exact point is the third beat in the second bar of a repeating 8 bar phrase, it's easier for me to see those same markings in the mod envelope instead of having to remember that it's the third beat in the first bar in Avenger. Maybe I'm thinking of it like repeating automation and that's not an approach you guys are using. Of course, this is no big deal, but just explaining my view and pointing out that many other products already have this other approach so I'm not completely coming out of nowhere. If everyone disagrees, I'm going to be just fine using it the way it is now.
Logic Pro X 10.4.6
Macbook Pro 2015
OS 10.14.5

100tifiko
KVRist
281 posts since 28 Jun, 2017

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:32 am

Manuel can we add a shaper to the drums I see it on the route section but when I select add nothing happen

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bmanic
KVRAF
8491 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:50 am

@msvs

Would it be possible to add a "duplicate" function in tandem with the copy/paste for the various parts within the synth? Duplicate would also copy all the modulation matrix slots, thus saving a lot of time in having to re-assign things when you want to duplicate things.

.. or just call it Copy+ or "Copy + modulation". Whatever makes most sense. Anyhow, the point is to copy filter/osc/amp/whatever and paste it into an identical slot but also retaining all the modulations for the new slot.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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msvs
KVRAF
1531 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 am

shaper in drums do not work

copying with modulation sources gives me already headache when I think about it, I dont think we will be able to do this without investing a long time.

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bmanic
KVRAF
8491 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:15 am

Ok, yeah I can see it being troublesome. I'm just so used to working that way due to Alchemy that does copy all mod routings when duplicating an oscillator.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

mitchiemasha
KVRist
283 posts since 15 Aug, 2011 from teesside

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 am

scoplunk wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:19 am
I get the feeling that you work pretty much exclusively with the instruments you've designed.
lol, seriously? This is Manuel Schleis you're talking about!

I always got the feeling Avenger was the results of Man working for countless companies of the past. The walls ran into when trying to program the sounds for their synths. The first time I leaned of Schleis was in the Virus TI, his factory preset banks were the best, the first few banks in the TI were mixed, it was always his sounds you'd use (MS). It wasn't til later I realise my fist Keyboard, Yamaha CS2x, the bank I loved the most was his too... That's from 1999. So many synths since.

This is what makes Avenger different.

Perhaps now it's "exclusively with the instruments you've designed" but where would be the time for other manufactures? Especially when Avenger is his baby. Created from the ground up to facilitate the easiest possible ways to achieve the sounds he needs to. With constant improvements once that functionality is visualised. Designed by a sound designer for sound design. Not just some random coders working for a chain to sell a new product.
MSI z390, i7 9700k, Noctua NH-U9S, NVME 970 Pro, 16GB 3000C15, BeQuiet S11, W10, Cubase 10.
Virus TI (INTERGRATED), Yamaha CS2x (Custom Mapped), JV1080 (Dance Card), Nord 2, Novation KS & Stations.

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msvs
KVRAF
1531 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:05 am

but its true, that I mostly use our own products, I rarely posess other synths or effects, (except hardware of course)
Since the only "music" I make, are the audio demos for our products, I have to use only them anyways :D

tapekiller
KVRist
69 posts since 6 Nov, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:22 am

msvs wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:05 am
but its true, that I mostly use our own products, I rarely posess other synths or effects, (except hardware of course)
Since the only "music" I make, are the audio demos for our products, I have to use only them anyways :D
I'm not complaining or anything like that, but giving other industry leading synths a try might not be a terrible idea. There are a lot of good design choiches in other synths, confronting your product (which is already amazing) with others might highlight some areas where the synth can be improved :tu:
Sometimes being too much into your own product can be alienating, taking a step back can help finding inspiration for new features that might even draw the attention of people who already own other synths but might feel restrictions that they wouldn't have in Avenger.

tapekiller
KVRist
69 posts since 6 Nov, 2014

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:25 am

Also, why is KVR's Avenger version 1.4.8? Just curious, I'm not familiar with how it's supposed to be updated, does the dev do it?

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msvs
KVRAF
1531 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:35 am

I dont need inspiration, we have more ideas and new features on our ToDo list, than we could ever implement in the lifetime
So no, playing around with other synths only distracts me, I rather stay focused on our products

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msvs
KVRAF
1531 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:47 am

here is a little preview what awaits you after 1.5.

XPs already finished: (NOT in order of release!)
Happy Hardcore (uses Multiloops)
EDM3
Cinematic 3
Funky House 2 (uses Multiloops)
Techno 1
HipHop 2 (uses Multiloops)
Acid Breaks (uses Multiloops)
Ibiza House (uses Multiloops)
Synthstruments (Wavetable Real Instruments) *free with 1.5.0*

new Multiloops feature:
Guitar Factory *free with 1.5.0*
Guitar XP1 (Distortion & Electric)
Guitar XP2 (Muted, Nylon and Steel)
Guitar XP3 (Acoustic & Electric Bass)
Guitar XP4 (Mixed Styles)

there will be no more XP releases before 1.5.0 version is out. The update will be free. (new featurelist soon)
It will have new protection system: "Codemeter" (online or dongle for choice). If this works, no eLicenser (dongle enforcement) planned for version 2.0!

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phreaque
KVRian
912 posts since 17 Jul, 2007 from Baghdad-Iq

Re: Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - summer sale -20% and new XP

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:58 am

Thanks! This is perfection! Thanks a lot Manuel & Rene K.
Phreaque Modi

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