Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[hvyen]

Wow, these are really good news and nice XPs are coming as well. Better times will come again!
I'm most excited about the Techno and the Acid Breaks XPs.

[tapekiller]

I dont need inspiration, we have more ideas and new features on our ToDo list, than we could ever implement in the lifetime
So no, playing around with other synths only distracts me, I rather stay focused on our products

I understand. After all, some suggestions might even come from customers who also use different synths, so you don't really have to bother in the first place.
Looking forward to the new update, hopefully codemeter will work.
Will the authorization work on authorized pcs while being offline?

[epiphaneia]

It will have new protection system: "Codemeter" (online or dongle for choice).

ok, I'll try it again: Codemeter messed up my main studio box the last time I tried it, so I'm unwilling to try it again. If you render my only very recently purchased software unusable for me by making a change that was unannounced at the time of my purchase, I'd like to know how you'd like to deal with that. I prefer "amicably" but the fact that my point has been ignored so far smells more like "then take it to court"...

(edit: I know I can keep using the last codemeter-free version, but I'll still be sitting on an abandoned version without fixes etc straight after purchase)

[tapekiller]

It will have new protection system: "Codemeter" (online or dongle for choice).

ok, I'll try it again: Codemeter messed up my main studio box the last time I tried it, so I'm unwilling to try it again. If you render my only very recently purchased software unusable for me by making a change that was unannounced at the time of my purchase, I'd like to know how you'd like to deal with that. I prefer "amicably" but the fact that my point has been ignored so far smells more like "then take it to court"...

(edit: I know I can keep using the last codemeter-free version, but I'll still be sitting on an abandoned version without fixes etc straight after purchase)

The thing is, the alternatives would create problems for much more users than codemeter itself would. I don't know if they would support different copy protection systems, but so far codemeter is the one most users would be fine with: dongle is optional, and it doesn't require an additional purchase on top of the old purchase(s) we already went through to acquire the license to use Avenger.
Furthermore, you're not even willing to give it another go right off the bat, so maybe the best course of action on their behalf is to refund you and void your license, if that's even possible. Did you send them an email? And out of curiosity, what exactly happened to your old studio because of codemeter?

[Soundplex]

Furthermore, you're not even willing to give it another go right off the bat, so maybe the best course of action on their behalf is to refund you and void your license, if that's even possible.

I wouldn't be willing as well because Codemeter messed up my system and other copy protections too (noticable slowdown, AV warned me it tried to sniff in system folders, messed up dongle drivers, crashed daw even during plugin scan).

Giving refunds to a bunch of people, at least the ones that bought it during the recent sale, should be the minimum because this whole "cracking problem" didn't come up recently but has been there some time. I'd bet that the idea to change the copy protection was also there some time.

[Caine123]

Another copy protection? I already got elicenser... ilok... now code meter? Guys.... this cannot go well on 1 system can it?
Especially on win10 machines

[Elektronisch]

Personaly, i prefer no dongle, but if it means installing another copy protection/activation software, id rather use eLicencer, simply because i already have it

[dionenoid]

Happy Hardcore (uses Multiloops)

Very curious. Inspired by the '90's Dutch Happy Hardcore or the UK Happy Hard stuff ?

[e@rs]

I don't need yet another copy protection method on my system, so if I'll have the option I'll definitely choose the refund.

[Caine123]

maybe i will stick to the older versions then of avenger cause i really fear another copy protection system will f**k up my system. i already had fears with ilok....

[Orbit-50]

here is a little preview what awaits you after 1.5.

XPs already finished: (NOT in order of release!)
Happy Hardcore (uses Multiloops)
EDM3
Cinematic 3
Funky House 2 (uses Multiloops)
Techno 1
HipHop 2 (uses Multiloops)
Acid Breaks (uses Multiloops)
Ibiza House (uses Multiloops)
Synthstruments (Wavetable Real Instruments) *free with 1.5.0*

new Multiloops feature:
Guitar Factory *free with 1.5.0*
Guitar XP1 (Distortion & Electric)
Guitar XP2 (Muted, Nylon and Steel)
Guitar XP3 (Acoustic & Electric Bass)
Guitar XP4 (Mixed Styles)

Dude, I've been waiting forever for that!!!!

[epiphaneia]

The thing is, the alternatives would create problems for much more users than codemeter itself would. I don't know if they would support different copy protection systems, but so far codemeter is the one most users would be fine with: dongle is optional, and it doesn't require an additional purchase on top of the old purchase(s) we already went through to acquire the license to use Avenger.
Furthermore, you're not even willing to give it another go right off the bat, so maybe the best course of action on their behalf is to refund you and void your license, if that's even possible. Did you send them an email? And out of curiosity, what exactly happened to your old studio because of codemeter?

I understand his move to Codemeter well and I'm all for good copy protection measures because I like companies whose software I use professionally to stay in business (I have 300+ licenses on my iLok).

But ignoring my eMails and forum posts about how to deal with /my/ case isn't exactly professional. It shouldn't be hard to find an amicable solution for the 1% who can't run CM if 99% are happy with it. If he doesn't want to, the question needs to be clarified in court, as German courts are notoriously consumer-friendly. But it's still sad, all these years of great support by great companies like U-He or Sugar Bytes, and now that.

This is what happened to my main studio machine after trying to try Reason (quoting an old post of mine):

"
I had an experience with Reason/Codemeter just once and that was enough. That led to me having to restore my Studio Mac from a backup, as it froze (no error message; just hard freezing) several times a day. I lost two days of -paid- work. That Mac had been working perfectly fine beforehand and after the restore. Even the not-necessarily-popular iLok never gave me that kind of headache.
"

[Demuvi]

If he doesn't want to, the question needs to be clarified in court, as German courts are notoriously consumer-friendly.

I thought the same as you. But i am sure, i'm wrong.

Let's say we buy a car and they create a new version of that car. Do we have the rights to get it when the old car is still doing what it should do?

Don't get me wrong. I also don't like the use of those copy protections but the bad world is the problem that people use cracks and people crack software not companies who gonna try to protect for that.

Btw. The actually version of Avenger is running stable. There are no bugs and if so, i'm sure they will fix it. But even there is a same question. Just because you use Windows XP in 2019 do you think that you have update rights in 2019?

I hope you didn't forgot to read any kind of "agb" when bought Avenger.

[epiphaneia]

Let's say we buy a car and they create a new version of that car. Do we have the rights to get it when the old car is still doing what it should do?
[...]
The actually version of Avenger is running stable. There are no bugs and if so, i'm sure they will fix it. But even there is a same question. Just because you use Windows XP in 2019 do you think that you have update rights in 2019?

Well, for one, I'll take a crazy guess and don't expect him to fix bugs etc on two different versions - and thus keep maintaining an old "non-CM" version on top of the most recent one. That would be a crazy move for maintaining a good and manageable codebase.

While a car is sold as-is (hey, we Germans love car analogies), I think it's reasonable to be able to benefit from a piece of software actually being developed further and not being cut off of that a few weeks after purchase. While one can argue that software is also an "as is" purchase, and one can't complain if a plugin isn't being developed further, for some software the active development is a major purchasing factor and cutting off some users needs an amicable solution for those being cut off. I think to expect that is reasonable and I am not the kind that shouts and swears.

btw, If the government suddenly required all cars to have 6 wheels, I'd also expect bmw to not tell me: "Sorry you bought last month's model, no addon kit for you"

"AGB" that put the consumer at too big of a disadvantage are usually being taken down in court, I have plenty of experience with that. I just dislike to stir up that kind of trouble for a relatively small amount of money, but also don't want to let him get away with that number, especially since I'm plainly being ignored. Even a "Sorry I don't know how to solve your problem" would be a better reaction than to ignore a paying customer.

[mitchiemasha]

but its true, that I mostly use our own products, I rarely posess other synths or effects, (except hardware of course)
Since the only "music" I make, are the audio demos for our products, I have to use only them anyways

And rightfully so... I thank you for that.