How do I make wavetables for Dune2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
surreal
KVRian
1033 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:46 pm

Hi Fellow Kvrers!!

Does anyone know how I can make wavetables for Synapse Audio Dune 2?

Please advise and help me as I would like to maximise this Synths capabilities! !

Thank you very much

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mcnoone
KVRAF
6059 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:08 pm

surreal wrote:Hi Fellow Kvrers!!

Does anyone know how I can make wavetables for Synapse Audio Dune 2?

Please advise and help me as I would like to maximise this Synths capabilities! !

Thank you very much
I think it requires an app that you're probably better off asking at the Synapse Audio forums about.

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Ingonator
KVRAF
12039 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:23 pm

The free Audio Term tool has an export format for DUNE 2.

Infos about Audio Term:
https://de-de.facebook.com/Audioterm/
viewtopic.php?f=257&t=334828

So far Audio Term is limited to a wavetable with 33 differnt waveforms. Not sure how Audio Term 2 will work there (seem to be work in progress).
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

surreal
KVRian
1033 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:27 pm

Thanks for the pointer... I will do so!

Regards

EnGee
KVRAF
5021 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:44 pm

Ingonator wrote:The free Audio Term tool has an export format for DUNE 2.

Infos about Audio Term:
https://de-de.facebook.com/Audioterm/
viewtopic.php?f=257&t=334828

So far Audio Term is limited to a wavetable with 33 differnt waveforms. Not sure how Audio Term 2 will work there (seem to be work in progress).
Thanks for that!

There are some nice videos in the facebook link (I think there are 3 about Dune 2). Anyway, there is an option to export as Dune 2 (he showed it in the videos).

These are the supported ones, according to the pdf file that comes with AudioTerm:

"The wavetables generated by the KTERM wavetable generator can be used with the following
products (other products may also work):
Terratec Komplexer (direct *.WT format support)
ImageLine Harmor (import *.WT file as image to Harmor)
Vemberaudio Surge (direct *.WT format support)
VAZ Modular /2010 (direct format support)
Wusik Wusikstation (use loop position modulation on a KTERM wavetable)
Camel Audio Alchemy (import KTERM wavetable as *.WAV)
Native Instruments Reaktor (use loop position modulation on a KTERM wavetable)
Waldorf Blofeld (direct *.SYX format support)
Ensoniq Eps16+ (direct *.EFE format support)
Ensoniq ASR series (direct *.EFE format support)
PPG WaveGenerator (direct *.wts format support)
Synapse Audio Dune2 (direct *.WT format support)
Xfer Serum (direct format support)"

I wonder if I can use Serum to generate wavetables then import them to Dune 2 or/and Blofeld. Maybe I need AudioTerm to import those and save them as a compatible wavetable for Dune 2 or Blofeld?
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.
--------------------------------------------------------
Windows 10, S1 v4, Live 9 & Bitwig 2

surreal
KVRian
1033 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:55 pm

That would be intresting to know as I have not bought serum or icarus as yet and I have wonderd if I could use a serum wavetable in Dune 2

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Astralp
KVRAF
1639 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:13 pm

There was supposedly a Dune 2 wavetable editor in development from synapse years ago which has never surfaced unfortunately. I would have thought that these days anyone who has made a wavetable synth would be looking at some sort of Serum wavetable import seeing as the editor is so good, and it is so popular.

I really hope the next release from synapse is Dune 3 which takes care of this (and hopefully some other lovely additions) :)

I think currently you would have to use audioterm to convert Serum to Dune II, but unless things have changed audioterm only supports 32(?) tables. I haven't tried to convert but it's on my list of things to do.

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Ingonator
KVRAF
12039 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:29 pm

EnGee wrote: I wonder if I can use Serum to generate wavetables then import them to Dune 2 or/and Blofeld. Maybe I need AudioTerm to import those and save them as a compatible wavetable for Dune 2 or Blofeld?
Audio Term could only handle up to 33 waveforms in a table. With the WAV wavetable output format you could also get more waveforms (e.g. 64) but the additional ones will be interpolations.

Not sure about importing Serum tables (with 33 or less waveforms) but it could not import Icarus tables even if you could directly load Serum wavetables in Icarus (without resynthesis) and you also load Icarus tables in Serum. Also dies not work with the WAV wavetables format in Audio Term.
On the other hand Icarus could load wavetables exported with the Serum format in Audio Term. I had used taht at the beginning of the Icarus Beta before the wavetable editor was included.

Anyway Audio Term is very picky about formats and you do not have many options there, especially with synth specific formats.

It is even possible that Audio Term could only load synth specific files (e.g. DUNE 2 format) that were also created and saved with Audio Term.

Single Cycle WAV file only seem to be compatible if they are 16-bit.

Another limitation is that files names in Audio Term could only have 8 characters if they should appear in the browser properly.
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

AnX
KVRAF
3308 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:41 pm

surreal wrote:Hi Fellow Kvrers!!

Does anyone know how I can make wavetables for Synapse Audio Dune 2?

Please advise and help me as I would like to maximise this Synths capabilities! !

Thank you very much
You need 2 or more files, up to 64 (you can do more but it gets complicated)

They need to be single cycle wav files that are 2048 samples in length. (equates to F0 detuned somewhat)

If you have a collection of these, ask someone at the Synapse forum to help. I know ppl who have access to the WT tool have helped others.

surreal
KVRian
1033 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:15 pm

AnX wrote:
surreal wrote:Hi Fellow Kvrers!!

Does anyone know how I can make wavetables for Synapse Audio Dune 2?

Please advise and help me as I would like to maximise this Synths capabilities! !

Thank you very much
You need 2 or more files, up to 64 (you can do more but it gets complicated)

They need to be single cycle wav files that are 2048 samples in length. (equates to F0 detuned somewhat)

If you have a collection of these, ask someone at the Synapse forum to help. I know ppl who have access to the WT tool have helped others.
How do create single cycle waves that comply to this specifications? I use Adobe Audition 3 as my wave editor...

Thank you for all the help and replies so far Guys :tu:

EnGee
KVRAF
5021 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:23 pm

Ingonator wrote:
EnGee wrote: I wonder if I can use Serum to generate wavetables then import them to Dune 2 or/and Blofeld. Maybe I need AudioTerm to import those and save them as a compatible wavetable for Dune 2 or Blofeld?
Audio Term could only handle up to 33 waveforms in a table. With the WAV wavetable output format you could also get more waveforms (e.g. 64) but the additional ones will be interpolations.

Not sure about importing Serum tables (with 33 or less waveforms) but it could not import Icarus tables even if you could directly load Serum wavetables in Icarus (without resynthesis) and you also load Icarus tables in Serum. Also dies not work with the WAV wavetables format in Audio Term.
On the other hand Icarus could load wavetables exported with the Serum format in Audio Term. I had used taht at the beginning of the Icarus Beta before the wavetable editor was included.

Anyway Audio Term is very picky about formats and you do not have many options there, especially with synth specific formats.

It is even possible that Audio Term could only load synth specific files (e.g. DUNE 2 format) that were also created and saved with Audio Term.

Single Cycle WAV file only seem to be compatible if they are 16-bit.

Another limitation is that files names in Audio Term could only have 8 characters if they should appear in the browser properly.
Thanks for the info.

I tried to import any format the Serum export (they are 3) and none could be imported in AudioTerm (which I found very weird program, I mean I used many DOS programs in the day, but this one is awful!). Anyway, I don't want to construct wavetables in AudioTerm.

Is there another program that import and export the many kinds of wavetables? I doubt that, but I really think a standard wavetable format should exists that all wavetables synths support!
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.
--------------------------------------------------------
Windows 10, S1 v4, Live 9 & Bitwig 2

User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
12039 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:49 pm

EnGee wrote:[
Is there another program that import and export the many kinds of wavetables? I doubt that, but I really think a standard wavetable format should exists that all wavetables synths support!
I do not know any other program to save wavetables for differnt formats.

Actually i am quite happy that recent wavetable synths including Icarus use a WAV format for loading and saving wavetables. So far i was able to laod Icraus wavetables in e.g. UVI Falcon, Serum (Demo version) and in Waldorf Nave with the Resynthesis.

Besides using Auidio Term (or teh Beta tool for DUNE 2) at the moment inside the synth only Icarus, Serum and Synthmaster seem to be able to craete wavetables from loading multiple single Cycle WAV file to them while Synthmaster is quite limited there (no actual wavetable editing features) and you could only load 16 different waves in the provided slots (and Synthmaster has no waveform editor yet to create your own ones).
PPG WaveGenerator only allows creating waveforms with the built-in editor while Wavemapper 2 is compatible to the WaveGenerator WT format and it could import samples by Resynthesis.

With Zebra 2 it looks like there is a 3rd party tool to create waveables from single cycle WAV files.

In Walodrf Nave you could also import Samples and WAV wavetables (or single waveforms from single cylce WAV files) by Resynthesis but doing wavetables from scratch is only possible in the 3D editor and not from loading single cycle WAV files (you could only load those to use a single waveform in Nave).
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

EnGee
KVRAF
5021 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:02 am

Ingonator wrote:
EnGee wrote:[
Is there another program that import and export the many kinds of wavetables? I doubt that, but I really think a standard wavetable format should exists that all wavetables synths support!
I do not know any other program to save wavetables for differnt formats.

Actually i am quite happy that recent wavetable synths including Icarus use a WAV format for loading and saving wavetables. So far i was able to laod Icraus wavetables in e.g. UVI Falcon, Serum (Demo version) and in Waldorf Nave with the Resynthesis.

Besides using Auidio Term (or teh Beta tool for DUNE 2) at the moment inside the synth only Icarus, Serum and Synthmaster seem to be able to craete wavetables from loading multiple single Cycle WAV file to them while Synthmaster is quite limited there (no actual wavetable editing features) and you could only load 16 different waves in the provided slots (and Synthmaster has no waveform editor yet to create your own ones).
Oh so there is a beta tool?! Is it only available to beta testers?

I think I'll wait for this tool to be released. If not, then, probably I will sell Dune 2 (I have other 3 wavetables synths, using Serum mainly and Largo/Blofeld sometimes).

Thanks for the info :)
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.
--------------------------------------------------------
Windows 10, S1 v4, Live 9 & Bitwig 2

AnX
KVRAF
3308 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:22 am

surreal wrote:
AnX wrote:
surreal wrote:Hi Fellow Kvrers!!

Does anyone know how I can make wavetables for Synapse Audio Dune 2?

Please advise and help me as I would like to maximise this Synths capabilities! !

Thank you very much
You need 2 or more files, up to 64 (you can do more but it gets complicated)

They need to be single cycle wav files that are 2048 samples in length. (equates to F0 detuned somewhat)

If you have a collection of these, ask someone at the Synapse forum to help. I know ppl who have access to the WT tool have helped others.
How do create single cycle waves that comply to this specifications? I use Adobe Audition 3 as my wave editor...

Thank you for all the help and replies so far Guys :tu:
You have to cut them up manually in an audio editor.

User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
12039 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: How do I make wavetables for Dune2

Post Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:23 am

EnGee wrote: Oh so there is a beta tool?! Is it only available to beta testers?

I think I'll wait for this tool to be released. If not, then, probably I will sell Dune 2 (I have other 3 wavetables synths, using Serum mainly and Largo/Blofeld sometimes).

Thanks for the info :)
At KVR this was alraedy mentioned a few times in the past. I got the tool here but i have not used it for a long time and did not check if there is a new version. The old version of the tool was quite simple anyway, it allowed combining multiple single cycle WAV files to a table. It had 64 slots that you could click on to load a single cycle WAV file there. The advantage of this is taht you could use up to 64 waves instaed of 33 like in Audio Term.
When i needed custom tables for DUNE 2 i had mostly used Audio Term. Besides creating wavetables from single cyles it also allows creating waveforms from scratch or a wavetable from Resynthesis.

As mentioned above by AnX the single cycle WAV files loaded into the WT Beta tool need a specific format:
AnX wrote: You need 2 or more files, up to 64 (you can do more but it gets complicated)

They need to be single cycle wav files that are 2048 samples in length. (equates to F0 detuned somewhat)

If you have a collection of these, ask someone at the Synapse forum to help. I know ppl who have access to the WT tool have helped others.
UPDATE:
Single cycle waveforms that were saved/exported with Icarus seem to be compatible with the WT tool. I just checked that. So it seems to be possible to re-save single WAV files with Icarus or create waveforms from scratch there with a compatible format.
Serum should be able to export compatible single cycle WAV files too (while i could not check that with the demo where saving WAV files is disabled).
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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