MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
2159 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:21 am

bungle wrote:I did not say your work was a joke, in fact i paid you a compliment on how good your 303 is, the joke is that this is so poor compared to your 303 (The definitive 303 in software)
There is no other Alpha Juno emulation, and such i would like to see this become the definitive emulation of that also !!
True !
You said It was beyond a joke! :clown:
O.k. That Said. I consider abl the only audiorealism plug.to Be a syccesfull emu.
Adm ,while Nice as a drumbox..doesn't even come close...909 kick is way off.
Same with redominator..nice plug...but that's It...surely NOT An emu.
My 2 ct...
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

bungle
KVRAF
1596 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:51 am

It is obviously why they called it ReDominator and not some MKS or Alpha variance, to be fair we could probably all live with this so so synth, but having trust in a developer who does not follow through on developments when they say they will, well that is a joke, nothing more, nothing less.
If your plugin is a C++ creation, please don't say so.
If it is, pop round Marcos, he has just bought you a Mac to port it.

Mike Janney
KVRist
345 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:46 am

bungle wrote:It is obviously why they called it ReDominator and not some MKS or Alpha variance, to be fair we could probably all live with this so so synth, but having trust in a developer who does not follow through on developments when they say they will, well that is a joke, nothing more, nothing less.
It's not a joke, it may very well be a mistake. Hint, companies (especially run by individuals) make mistakes also. I simply forgot to push the beta with the Alpha Juno-ish filter into release.

But, since I spent some time debugging the ReDominator audio engine this week (due to this thread reminding me about it) I can say that its not just the filter that makes it sound different, instead it seems to be a difference in the way the VCA and the filter interacts which gives the MKS-50 more punch on certain settings.

The Alpha Juno is one of my all time favorit synths and ReDominator is meant to be a tribute to that. I can admit that after releasing something it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep everything up to date, also personal issues get in the way sometimes. But the intention is always to keep working on the audio engines for each product, and improve them where I can.

Now, someone mentioned that we seem to be inactive, to show that I'm certainly active and working on stuff continuously I have been planning to open up more to the process, for example live streams and similar. This might be a good way for users to directly give feedback on changes as they happen..

Mike / AudioRealism
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se

Mike Janney
KVRist
345 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:46 am

bungle wrote:It is obviously why they called it ReDominator and not some MKS or Alpha variance, to be fair we could probably all live with this so so synth, but having trust in a developer who does not follow through on developments when they say they will, well that is a joke, nothing more, nothing less.
It's not a joke, it may very well be a mistake. Hint, companies (especially run by individuals) make mistakes also. I simply forgot to push the beta with the Alpha Juno-ish filter into release.

But, since I spent some time debugging the ReDominator audio engine this week (due to this thread reminding me about it) I can say that its not just the filter that makes it sound different, instead it seems to be a difference in the way the VCA and the filter interacts which gives the MKS-50 more punch on certain settings.

The Alpha Juno is one of my all time favorit synths and ReDominator is meant to be a tribute to that. I can admit that after releasing something it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep everything up to date, also personal issues get in the way sometimes. But the intention is always to keep working on the audio engines for each product, and improve them where I can.

Now, someone mentioned that we seem to be inactive, to show that I'm certainly active and working on stuff continuously I have been planning to open up more to the process, for example live streams and similar. This might be a good way for users to directly give feedback on changes as they happen..

Mike / AudioRealism
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se

Mike Janney
KVRist
345 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:49 am

gentleclockdivider wrote: Adm ,while Nice as a drumbox..doesn't even come close...909 kick is way off.
I agree the 909-kick can use some improvements.
--Mike
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se

bungle
KVRAF
1596 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:15 am

Mike, unfortunately you are not one of a very few developers in the audio world, and like it or not, you are quite high level in reality (Your 303 saw to that, no pun intended) but as users, we constantly have to put up with excuse and failures from developers, so no matter if you like it or not, people pay for things in good will, and when a developer says they will do something, we fully expect as customers to see the developer do that thing, when they do not, it is of no concern of ours if they are upset when it is pointed out in a forum, being more transparent is of way way less importance than actually delivering.
If you need n example, go and look at Native Instruments Maschine forum, they didn't communicate for years, then all of sudden because the forum and public perception imploded, they want to keep everybody updated on progress, even admitting that they ignored Maschine for years, everybody forgives them because they are being open and transparent, WRONG, that lasted all of five minutes until they delivered new hardware and the new software features that had been promised only worked with said hardware, forum now implodes again and public perception is also destroyed again, moral, deliver, that is the important part.

And don't get me wrong here, deliver Redominator 2, paid upgrade, just make it sound better and add in the sysex bank loading and stuff like you suggested, paid upgrades are no problem, we are not all spoilt little brats.
Redominator 1 was the Hoover edition, 2 will be the emulation.
If your plugin is a C++ creation, please don't say so.
If it is, pop round Marcos, he has just bought you a Mac to port it.

Mike Janney
KVRist
345 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:55 am

bungle wrote:And don't get me wrong here, deliver Redominator 2, paid upgrade, just make it sound better and add in the sysex bank loading and stuff like you suggested, paid upgrades are no problem, we are not all spoilt little brats.
Redominator 1 was the Hoover edition, 2 will be the emulation.
I don't take you wrong and I really appreciate the feedback..! Anyhow I'm not sure we'll do a 2.0 soon but I certainly want to make the sysex converter handle the original posters patch better. I spent some time on this during the week and it's not the missing filter that's causing most of the mismatch, instead it seems
to be a but in the VCA that causes the real Alpha Juno to have more punch with certain envelope settings.

That said, the filter update was released for be Reason version, it was the VST/AU that was missed but now that I'm working on this but I probably will try to fix both issues in one go.

--Mike
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se

bungle
KVRAF
1596 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:12 pm

Brilliant stuff, looking forward to it
If your plugin is a C++ creation, please don't say so.
If it is, pop round Marcos, he has just bought you a Mac to port it.

Mike Janney
KVRist
345 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:54 am

Hi Guys,

After testing Sayer's patch on our lab Alpha Juno I managed to match the sound somewhat better.
I'm using the beta version of ReDominator with the 24dB filter (based on the IR-3R05).

https://soundcloud.com/audiorealism/set ... tor-arp-me

When I programmed Sayer's patch I did get it sounding exactly like his MKS-50, I'm not sure if this is due to a bug in the programming or if the MKS-50 sound engine is slightly different from the Alpha Junos. It could also be the way the master keyboard sends velocity.

The audio from ReDominator is captured directly via the host, and the Alpha Juno is captured via line-in on a Komplete Audio 6. For 100% fair comparison ideally we would capture both devices via the same line-in and audio hardware. The real Alpha Juno sounds a bit more dull and has a bigger bottom end, which is typically common to older synths.

Now, the ReDominator still has several improvements to go (emulation-wise), but this product was really meant to feel and act like an Alpha Juno rather than be an exact emulation. I have no problem improving the sound engine when I can (and time permits!).

I plan on doing a live-stream comparison between ReDominator and the Alpha Juno in the coming days, I'll post the link here when it goes live.

--Mike
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se

SayersWeb
KVRist
146 posts since 28 Sep, 2003 from Houston, Texas

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:38 am

Definitely getting closer... seems like there is something off with the envelope. Have you tried decreasing the decay a little bit?

Are you hoping to tweak ReDominator so that when a patch from the Alpha Juno or MKS-50 is opened that there won't be much tweaking required for them to sound similar? I'm happy to do some comparing with the MKS-50 (as long as it keeps working) once you have an updated beta available.

Mike Janney
KVRist
345 posts since 10 Jun, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:36 am

SayersWeb wrote:Definitely getting closer... seems like there is something off with the envelope. Have you tried decreasing the decay a little bit?

Are you hoping to tweak ReDominator so that when a patch from the Alpha Juno or MKS-50 is opened that there won't be much tweaking required for them to sound similar? I'm happy to do some comparing with the MKS-50 (as long as it keeps working) once you have an updated beta available.
Well ideally ReDominator should be able to import a sysex patch and it should sound similar with maybe a few manual tweaks. And this worked with the 1.0 released version (kind of, with the 12dB-filter which was not modelled on the Alpha Juno). Now that we have the new filter the rest of the model needs to be calibrated and obviously there's something to be improved on the envelope.

I'll spend some more time on it tomorrow and see where we are at.
--Mike
AudioRealism
www.audiorealism.se

bungle
KVRAF
1596 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:52 am

Big improvement, if you could get it close opening sysex files, that would be amazing, add in importing sysex banks and this synth could be a future treat !!
If your plugin is a C++ creation, please don't say so.
If it is, pop round Marcos, he has just bought you a Mac to port it.

AdvancedFollower
KVRist
433 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:23 am

pandashake wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:54 am
commuter wrote:
They did with the RE Version for Reason.
It's weird that they haven't updated the vst version with the Original Alpha Filter since that filter option has been availible for a long time in Reason.
In fact they did! (silently)
the "original" filter is now also included on the VST version, strange they didn't announced it, i found it by chance!, It's in the preset menu


Image

I just downloaded it from the website and mine doesn't have this in there. Sure you are not running a beta?
Incidentally I just downloaded the demo from their website too and I don't see the option, either. Guess I'll stick with Diva since these developers don't even seem to bother updating the VST any more sin spite of still selling it for €55.

v1o
KVRAF
1822 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: MKS-50 vs ReDominator (mp3)

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:31 pm

Well it works well as is and the developer is still active. He spends most of the time updating the 303.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

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