Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
71 posts since 28 May, 2008

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:46 am

Wow, i'm seriously impressed, i'll buy it as soon as possible....i'm a big fan of the minimoog sound (and i have access to a model D from 1971) and i really love Monark.....This one is really really really great too......Congrats Rich and BT!

KVRAF
1584 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:47 am

Lovely sound , they could have added a velocity to filter cutoff and bpm sync for the LFO without a lot of compromise. Much for faithful to original than the Monark IMHO and yes I did own an original Mini.
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KVRist
406 posts since 27 Feb, 2014 from France

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:36 am

Elektronisch wrote:Ok, so im demoing The Legend. It sounds really great! Congratulations Synapse!

Im also doing some small comparison between Diva, Monark, The Legend. I tried to match settings of Monark to The Legend, the sound was totaly different. I saw EnGee wrote that sound is very close. Can you share the patches? to me in every case scenario the sound was different. I am not sure if i did something wrong?

But i did tried to match the settings of The Legend and Diva, and those actually did matched quite good, even sound is similar.

Now this is open thinking:
There are comparisons online and written by reviewers that Monark is very close to Minimoog (model D if i recall). There are barely comparisons of Diva to Moog, but for my own surprise it sounds very similar to The Legend. The makers of Legend claim its so close, i got impression its 1:1 to Moog. Yet it sounds very different from Monark.

So wich is saying the truth and wich is really closest to the Moog ? :D

People who actually still own Moogs can any of you try to match the settings? :) i personaly dont believe to those who owned Moogs, because memories can be very fuzzy and misleading :)

p.s. can some one on earth make a spot on emulation of Prophet 5? we have enough of those moogs :D
if you go by ears and not setting these can sound very close, i did very short test so take this with grain of salt, but it seems the tonal balance is lsighty better on the synapse, the filter also sound great for sweep, monark noise and osc3 modulation are "better" it seems , to match the noise modulation of the synapse at full, i had to use just 1/3 range on monark for example, also the filter seems to respond better to audio rate mod in monark ..but all this i m not sure it was very short test in the night.. but i conclued that i would enjoy probably more the synapse for sound that are not extreme and monark for these, for soft musical the synapse seems to be better cause of the tonal balance.. i will try again later cause yesteray night i was out of space :D
Last edited by Synthetic Wav on Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:48 am, edited 6 times in total.
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KVRAF
2705 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:37 am

Ingonator wrote:Hi everyone,

now that The Legend seems to be available at the official website a few more informations concerning my own contrubutions to The Legend (besides beta testing).

My own contribution to the factory library of The Legend consists of 141 presets while 34 were programmed from scratch (those wit h"IW" at teh end of the name) and 107 found in the "K.P.Rausch Classic Patches" sub-folder.
I re-programmed those from the Minimoog patch book (printed patch sheets, no PDF) of Klaus P- Rausch at Back In Time Records:
http://www.backintimerecords.de/bitr045.htm

The re-programmed patches/presets in The Legend are included with kind permission of Klaus including being directly contacted by Richard at Synapse Audio.
Richard had ordered the patch book too and we both did our best to fine tune the patches, also based on samples included with a CD included with the patch charts book.

Again many thanks to Klaus for the permission. :hug:

Besides some fine tuning re-prgramming patch sheets in The Legend seems to be quite straightforward and the parameter ranges seemed to be carefully adjusted abased on the real thing.
Those 107 pathces based on teh patch sheets/charts mostly use the original features so no advanced features like e.g. FXs and Unison are used there. The "Late" model (available at the advanced settings, also called "simulation options") was used for those, also as the early model was not available when those patches were created. If you like you could switch those to the "Early" model where necessary. You should not notice a differnce with all patches but with some for sure.



Have fun with The Legend,
Ingo
Are your patches in the RE version?
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KVRAF
5072 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:43 am

...double
Last edited by Cinebient on Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
5072 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:43 am

O.k. it does sound really great....but....
It´s not for me. O.k. i was not searching for a Minimoog model so it might be the reason.
At least i know now that i don´t need any of these Minimoog emulations.
While it sounds great i find it not very expressive to play due to lack of velocity and aftertouch etc.
I find that Dagger (a mono synth) f.e. has much more balls for bass sound.
Then i already have a Moog (even if it´s a 30 dollar app) which can do so much more in terms of versatility, playability and sounds stunning too (maybe even better).
So i hope there will be still work for Dune 2 rather than another emulation.
Sorry but it´s just what i think when i play it.....boring.

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KVRAF
12497 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:49 am

A few hints concerning the Osc and/or Filter modulation by Osc 3:

- The "OSC" switch in the CONTROLS section activates crossmodulation/FM of Osc3 with teh other OScs, "FILTER" activates filter modulatiion (and/or filter FM)

- You could mix both Osc3 and the Noise for modulation using the Mod Mix knob, comprable to how it works in the real synth. Usually the pink noise seems to be a better choice for modulation purposes.

- The noise when used for modulation seems to sound closer to a real Minimoog than in e.g. Monark, especially the pink noise

- If you want to use OSc3 as a LFO you should set the octave to "LO" and switch keytracking off ("KTRK" switch). Usually alsothe volume for OSc is the set to 0 (or you could even switch teh Osc off while it stil lworks for modulation). Again this works like in teh real synth so nothing new for Minimoog users.

- The Osc3 mod amount is set with the Modwheel and opposing to the real synth in The Legend this setting could be saved with the patch (see the "MW" parameter at the upper left).

- at the advanced settings in the back panel in the "MODULATION" tab there are 3 parameters to adjust the behavior of the Modwheel. PITCH RANGE further adjusts the range of how Osc3/Noise acts with crossmodulation/vibrato and with the CUTOFF RANGE the same for the Filter modulation (and/or filter FM) . The "SHAPE" setting could set the behavior of the Modwheel betwen linear (default) and logarithmic behavior.


Besides that on the back panel there are also other parameters to further adjust/tweak the sound. If you want to keep teh sound close to a real Mini you should be careful with a few of the parameters but for creating your own new sounds this does not really matter.
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KVRAF
1678 posts since 23 Sep, 2005

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:53 am

Q. Is the Reverb in the VST version of The Legend in the Back Panel ? (if Yes) How do you access the back panel in the VST version ?

db3
KVRAF
2527 posts since 22 Aug, 2012

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:56 am

Muziksculp wrote:Q. Is the Reverb in the VST version of The Legend in the Back Panel ? (if Yes) How do you access the back panel in the VST version ?
There a button to switch to back panel view...where you can access effects and global settings.

Sounds gorgeous. :phones:
Last edited by db3 on Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRian
1043 posts since 20 Dec, 2010

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:58 am

Elektronisch wrote:So if they are so close and if even by some claim that one or a another is almost same as Moog shouldnt then Monark and Legend be similar in terms of sound and settings matching :) at least that would be most logical sense :)
Discounting the extended features, yes. Just like matching Legend and vintage hardware, it is however not trivial to match the parameters 1:1. A single parameter, say Cutoff or Env Amount, that is not perfectly matched and the result will sound different, and dependent on personal preference, one will sound better than the other. Nico said it took him very long just to get the parameters exactly right when doing the comparison files. It's often about cents, or millimeters on the hardware pots. That's why we went for two tuning knobs per oscillator, even though we have the left-click+shift trick as well to move knobs with increased precision. Bottom line is that setting up a proper test is very challenging - if the difference is large, there's almost certainly something wrong somewhere in the parameter settings.

Richard
p.s. We have put Nico's comparison WAV files into a Youtube video for easier access:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIPu2Su-V9Q
Last edited by Richard_Synapse on Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KVRAF
12497 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:02 am

Cinebient wrote: It´s not for me. O.k. i was not searching for a Minimoog model so it might be the reason.
At least i know now that i don´t need any of these Minimoog emulations.
So while several times it was mentioned this is a proper Minimoog emulation (with some additional advanced features not found in th real thing) you now tell a proper Minimoog emulation is not what you are interested in.
Sounds a bit strange to me. So what did you really expect from this? Maybe something that is only remotely close to a real Mini with tons of additional features?

For me the advanced features currently available including e.g. 12dB filter mode, 4 voice Poly (with adjustable stereo spread), 4 voice Unison (with adjustable stereo spread), full ADSR envelopes (instead of ADS or ADSD), Delay + Reverb effects, 2 switchable Minimoog models and others are enough at the moment, not to forget it runs without using Reaktor and does not kill your CPU (even when using polyphony).

FWIW theoretically adding e.g. velocity and/or aftertouch control could be something for a future update if enough customers would request this.
Last edited by Ingonator on Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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KVRAF
32419 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:04 am

Is audiorate modulation possible using the Reason CV inputs?

Also are the 2 versions patch compatible?

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KVRAF
12497 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:06 am

aMUSEd wrote: Also are the 2 versions patch compatible?
I have created my patches in the VST version and AFAIK they were not changed for the RE version. Aynway i do not own Reason so i could check this myself.
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Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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KVRAF
1678 posts since 23 Sep, 2005

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:16 am

db3 wrote:
Muziksculp wrote:Q. Is the Reverb in the VST version of The Legend in the Back Panel ? (if Yes) How do you access the back panel in the VST version ?
There a button to switch to back panel view...where you can access effects and global settings.

Sounds gorgeous. :phones:
Oh.. I see.

And, is it Polyphonic as well, or only Monophonic ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp

KVRAF
5636 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:23 am

Muziksculp wrote:
db3 wrote:
Muziksculp wrote:Q. Is the Reverb in the VST version of The Legend in the Back Panel ? (if Yes) How do you access the back panel in the VST version ?
There a button to switch to back panel view...where you can access effects and global settings.

Sounds gorgeous. :phones:
Oh.. I see.

And, is it Polyphonic as well, or only Monophonic ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp
It can be switched to 4-voice poly.

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