Synapse Audio Minimoog emulation "The Legend" for VST/AU and RE released!

[Mutant]

Just stumbled upon this statement for another synth:

"New "Thump" button in the envelopes. Gives a 4ms hold time for the VCA envelope like the Minimoog with its clipped envelopes."

What is a clipped envelope?

https://www.synthesizers.com/products/q109/egpunch.html

[chk071]

Guess there was a misunderstanding then. At least I can't see how that has anything to do with the stacked envelopes Urs was explaining.

BTW, maybe I'm wrong, but, what I also noticed is that, the longer the attack phase, the longer that additional "clipping phase" takes (which would make sense, if the attack phase is clipped). At least I noticed that I have to dial in more than 1 second in Massive X, when I want to mimic the same attack as on Monark. Actually, MX allows for a hold phase after the attack, which can mimic that pretty well.

[Urs]

It's a very simple and fundamental thing. If you put a waveshaper/clipper behind an envelope, you can't "stack" the envelope above the maximum sustain level. But the Minimoog does stack up beyond its max sustain level, therefore it's not clipped.

However, as synthesizers.com points out: "This comes from a slight, perhaps unintentional, built-in delay between the Attack phase and the Decay phase of the envelope." - sure, why not.

[chk071]

So, to conclude, I guess what e-crooner was quoting from the changelog of the synth he mentioned should actually read that there's a delay between the attack and the decy phase, and not that the envelope is clipped.

[e-crooner]

When people say that the envelope exceeds the maximum voltage, I wonder what that maximum is? I doubt a synth would work for decades if components were overpowered all the time. Maybe the first hit of the key merely causes a partial peak, way below the specified maximum of the component, and from that value the peak is increased again step by step with the next keystrokes, up until the real maximum.
Here they mention the symmetrical 10V-0V-10V voltage used throughout the Minimoog, I suppose that is the control voltage? It is quite a range, isn't it usually 5V-0V-5V?
https://secretlifeofsynthesizers.com/minimoog-model-d/

How often does the increase occur before it no longer increases?
I can only press a key so fast, like 5x per second max, which means a 200ms delay, which is not little. (I read that the human hearing can discern 10ms.)
However, judging from Diva the stacking only kicks in when I press the same key with a certain speed (like 3 or 4x per second), below that the stacking behavior is not triggered, right?

[sQeetz]

When people say that the envelope exceeds the maximum voltage, I wonder what that maximum is?

it's eleven. The one after maximum, of course...

[vurt]

When people say that the envelope exceeds the maximum voltage, I wonder what that maximum is?

it's eleven. The one after maximum, of course...

[AnX]

I doubt a synth would work for decades if components were overpowered all the time.

i doubt anyone has switched on a Minimoog and hit the same key 4 times a second for 40 years.....

[ENV1]

When people say that the envelope exceeds the maximum voltage, I wonder what that maximum is?

According to the PDF Urs posted, (which unfortunately doesnt say anything about how it works in technical terms either), Sustain is 8V while the CGs can be pumped to 11V. So fully pumped, the CGs would go something like 3V above Sustain. I have no way of knowing if thats correct or not (i always thought its 10V) but since they did the measurements i will have to take their word for it.

How often does the increase occur before it no longer increases?

'Often' is not the right word, its 'up to what level'. And the answer is 'until it cant go higher anymore'.

Imagine a bucket with a hole in the bottom, where the size of the hole is determined by the Decay Time knob. (Fast Decay = Huge Hole, Slow Decay = Tiny Hole.) You pour some water in the bucket, which is synonymous to voltage rising. The water will then start escaping through the hole, which is synonymous to voltage falling. Thus if you have a relatively long decay time, and you pour more water in the bucket while some is still in there, it accumulates, i.e. the water/voltage keeps rising because you are adding water faster than what escapes through the hole. This can be done until the bucket is full, at which point no more water can be added until some has escaped first.

(Of course Attack Time is another factor (like a hole whose size determines how much and how fast you can pour water in the bucket) but i think you get the general idea.)

[EvilDragon]

I doubt a synth would work for decades if components were overpowered all the time.

i doubt anyone has switched on a Minimoog and hit the same key 4 times a second for 40 years.....

Ahahahaha, good one!

[vurt]

wed recognise them from the index finger that looked like arnies bicep.

[accessdune3]

Any idea when the new significant update is coming? I remember reading Richard is working on some.

[brok landers]

the thing with the minimoog envs is a relatively trivial "misbehavior" but rather tricky to be implemented. what happens is, that there is a capacitor lag in the maximum level after the attack time before the decay time. as the capacitor takes its time to discharge, when repetitively hitting a note within the lag time, the voltage is added to the current one, effectively creating a dc offset, which pushes the maximum amplitude of the env between the attack and the decay way over the specified volts, when consecutively retriggeri!ng within the time that the capacitor is not fully discharged yet. which means, that with faster attack/decay times the amplitude between the attack and the decay will create a consecutively rising spike with each keystroke, which more and more results in a very punchy sound. if you let go if retriggering and the capacitor is fully discharged, then retrigger often times again, the stack up will start again until it settles way above the specified voltage while retriggering within the lag of the capacitor, as it doesn't get the time it needs to discharge... then it drops again with the discharging, when not triggering for a longer time.and starts to build up again with multiple fast retriggering, and so on.

[zvenx]

I saw this thread bumped saw your name and said YES.. he is finally doing a sound bank for it
rsp

[AnX]

would be nice to get some classic sounds from Brok in Legend and OBsession to counterpoint the plethora of tedious edm crap they currently have in the factory banks