Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
v1o
KVRian
1226 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:32 am

adamtrance wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:51 pm
Also dont forget that Viper is only 10 months old, while any other popular synth has been out for many years now to get around
And the 64 bit version only very recently came out. And there is no AU version yet.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

v1o
KVRian
1226 posts since 2 Oct, 2004

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:34 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:37 am
I see. I think that is also how Lennard did Sylenth1 initially, using SE as a mere framework for his own code. But he abandoned SE sooner or later, and I assume it helped his product's reputation.
Most end users don’t know anything about coding or how plugins are even made. For example no one cares when a plugin was made using Juice. And Monark was very well received despite being made in a synth builder called Reaktor.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2

surreal
KVRian
1034 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:57 am

The price point is for me the issue and Value Perception... the fact that there is no discount incentive to the owners of your other plugins is a bit of a lost bait really. As I previously said that of this Synth had a lower intro price at release it would have most probably gained more traction especialy when the 64bit version was still in development. I honestly only review Synths that I actually own either through purchase, beta testing or demo writing. I dont reviews of demo synths I dont have so I cant help with ratings either.

izonin
KVRian
1161 posts since 27 Oct, 2009

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:59 am

tristan- wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:07 am
I think Viper is one of the best VA along with Dune 2 and Sylenth1.
disregarding Serum and Diva, my two other favorite synths from a comparison point of view.

maybe the 64bit thing at first was problematic for buyers, and the fact it was released in early development to the public. but I just think it should be seen more, at least with some cool demos and reviews on YouTube. I'd give a free reviewers license to those guys.
One of the things the guys who built Spire did, was to give free licenses to some famous producers. You lose $0 by doing this, and get some free advertising.

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tristan-
KVRist
410 posts since 11 Dec, 2004

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:08 am

izonin wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:59 am
tristan- wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:07 am
I think Viper is one of the best VA along with Dune 2 and Sylenth1.
disregarding Serum and Diva, my two other favorite synths from a comparison point of view.

maybe the 64bit thing at first was problematic for buyers, and the fact it was released in early development to the public. but I just think it should be seen more, at least with some cool demos and reviews on YouTube. I'd give a free reviewers license to those guys.
One of the things the guys who built Spire did, was to give free licenses to some famous producers. You lose $0 by doing this, and get some free advertising.
Exactly! Let them enjoy it and get it out there

adamtrance
KVRian
695 posts since 29 Sep, 2004

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:16 am

I did exactly that. Except I never got any free advertising in return, so I stopped with this idea...
http://www.adamszabo.com/ - Synths, soundsets and music

izonin
KVRian
1161 posts since 27 Oct, 2009

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:14 am

adamtrance wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:16 am
I did exactly that. Except I never got any free advertising in return, so I stopped with this idea...
That's a bummer! Well, I'm sure that Armin van Buuren would have loved it, if a Viper AU existed. :)

As someone who's just a regular KVR member, and one of your paying customers, I can say that Viper is fantastic, just like the original Virus.

chk071
KVRAF
17594 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:25 am

v1o wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:34 am
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:37 am
I see. I think that is also how Lennard did Sylenth1 initially, using SE as a mere framework for his own code. But he abandoned SE sooner or later, and I assume it helped his product's reputation.
Most end users don’t know anything about coding or how plugins are even made. For example no one cares when a plugin was made using Juice. And Monark was very well received despite being made in a synth builder called Reaktor.
Yep. The thing with SynthEdit, though, is that it still seems to have that reputation it earned when everyone built their own synth using stock modules, so, many seem to think it's still that way. Same with Flowstone, I guess.

AdvancedFollower
KVRist
136 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:33 am

izonin wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:14 am
adamtrance wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:16 am
I did exactly that. Except I never got any free advertising in return, so I stopped with this idea...
That's a bummer! Well, I'm sure that Armin van Buuren would have loved it, if a Viper AU existed. :)

As someone who's just a regular KVR member, and one of your paying customers, I can say that Viper is fantastic, just like the original Virus.
He probably has a closet full of spare Virus TI's anyway :lol:

But yeah, the lack of a Mac version probably hurts it a bit as well. Even someone who uses a PC currently might prefer plug-ins available for other platforms for portability.

chk071
KVRAF
17594 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:40 am

AdvancedFollower wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:33 am
izonin wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:14 am
adamtrance wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:16 am
I did exactly that. Except I never got any free advertising in return, so I stopped with this idea...
That's a bummer! Well, I'm sure that Armin van Buuren would have loved it, if a Viper AU existed. :)

As someone who's just a regular KVR member, and one of your paying customers, I can say that Viper is fantastic, just like the original Virus.
He probably has a closet full of spare Virus TI's anyway :lol:
Probably, but, it seems none of those guys really use anything hardware anymore, with a few exceptions.

The Mac thing is a very good point. I guess that should explain it. That combined with my assumption that this kind of comes 10 years too late (no offense intended).

Pyrotek45
Suspended
404 posts since 4 Nov, 2013

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:17 pm

I wanna buy viper, but for the price I can't bring myself to do it. synthmaster for instance, has many more features and is generally sold for a fraction of the price from a single-dev aswell. Plus it wasn't made in flowstone . it also has a standalone version. viper sounds good but it's very basic when compared to other synths in the same price range. why would someone with sylenth, dune 2 or serum add this to their collection unless they suffer from GAS? and you know most of us own at least one of them. I think if it was like 50 bucks everybody would have it because at that price why not? Then again I use free plugins all the time like charlatan too (it does great super saws too) even when I have plenty of other synths. I know Adam spent a ton of time on it but he is the only one attached to that effort. no one else is. viper is still just a flowstone synth that's trying to compete with other synths that aren't made in flowstone, and have more features. I can get a copy of spire for around 100 bucks on the kvr market place. as a matter of fact I have(then I sold it because even spire had too much overlap with my other synths). like I said, I think viper is awesome, but at its current price I just don't see it becoming as popular as it can. its main selling point being that the supersaws are based on the virus ,but to me that's just too small of a reason to buy it for a smacking 100 bucks(someone is selling sylenth in the kvr market place for 100 bucks atm, and I think that's a way better deal considering its not made in flowstone, and has tons of presets). some people might not see flowstone as a negative but to me it kind of is. their forums always seem dead tbh and if there's a bug in flowstone then adam wouldn't be able to do anything about it unless until flowstone devs fixed it (just like what happened with the 64 bit version, adam was at the mercy of flowstone to make a 64bit version which wouldn't have happened if he had just coded it all himself, sure it would have been more work but that's why I'm more willing to spend money on something that's been coded from the ground up because the devs have control over every single aspect of their vst). also, please don't jump on me for my opinions, I want viper to be a success, but for the price I don't see it happening.
~Pyrotek45

adamtrance
KVRian
695 posts since 29 Sep, 2004

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:28 pm

Pyrotek45 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:17 pm
why would someone with sylenth, dune 2 or serum add this to their collection unless they suffer from GAS?

viper is still just a flowstone synth that's trying to compete with other synths that aren't made in flowstone, and have more features.

its main selling point being that the supersaws are based on the virus
Well, Sylenth, Dune or Serum, or Spire while really awesome synths, they have their own sound, while Viper was meant to specifically get close to the Virus sound. If I would have done a new synth with its own character I would have done it in half the time it took to make Viper. There was a LOT of time analyzing every aspect of the Virus, the distortion curves, envelops, lfos, filters, oscillators, effect, and so on.

I still dont understand why does it matter if its made with FlowStone? 1+1 is 2 in FlowStone just like 1+1 is 2 in C++. There is no difference in quality, as long as you know what you are doing.

And third, the main selling point is not that its supersaw is based on the Virus, the entire synth is based on the Virus. The entire signal flow, workflow, sound engine, everything was carefully modelled, thats why it took so long time.
http://www.adamszabo.com/ - Synths, soundsets and music

Pyrotek45
Suspended
404 posts since 4 Nov, 2013

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:49 pm

adamtrance wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:28 pm
Pyrotek45 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:17 pm
why would someone with sylenth, dune 2 or serum add this to their collection unless they suffer from GAS?

viper is still just a flowstone synth that's trying to compete with other synths that aren't made in flowstone, and have more features.

its main selling point being that the supersaws are based on the virus
Well, Sylenth, Dune or Serum, or Spire while really awesome synths, they have their own sound, while Viper was meant to specifically get close to the Virus sound. If I would have done a new synth with its own character I would have done it in half the time it took to make Viper. There was a LOT of time analyzing every aspect of the Virus, the distortion curves, envelops, lfos, filters, oscillators, effect, and so on.

I still dont understand why does it matter if its made with FlowStone? 1+1 is 2 in FlowStone just like 1+1 is 2 in C++. There is no difference in quality, as long as you know what you are doing.

And third, the main selling point is not that its supersaw is based on the Virus, the entire synth is based on the Virus. The entire signal flow, workflow, sound engine, everything was carefully modelled, thats why it took so long time.
1. I get that it's selling point is it sounds like a virus, but is that it? The problem with a synths "character" is that to me, it's generally too subtle to *really* matter . no one who listens to music goes "oh I like this song more because the artist used a virus synth!".I don't think any listener could tell what synth it is, therefor, I don't know if buying a synth for it's character is worth it, unless the artist themselves couldn't go without the subtle differences enough to use anything else. If you're trying to sell me the idea that the character of the saw-wave/supersaw/filter on your synth is 100$ worth or better than the character of the saw-wave/supersaw/filter on any of the other synths that I already own, I'm just not sold.

2. As I explained, you're at the mercy of flowstone. If development stopped for flowstone, or there are general problems with flowstone itself ,you're helpless to it.

3. I really think the majority of people will only see the supersaw being modeled after the virus, and if that's not the case, it should really be on the front page under viper that more than just the oscillators are being emulated. so maybe add that to vipers page.

I think there is a spot for a powerful *and* affordable synth in the market right now, but I think every developer(maybe not kv331) is too afraid to tap into it because they fear they'll lose money. I know if i had seen viper when i first started buying VST's and seen it for like 49$ or even 59$ bucks i would have bought it without hesitation(I wouldn't have cared it was flowstone or 32 bit for that price). That's just a good deal IMHO. but for 100$ i would have kept looking for something with a bigger feature set and similar price like synthmaster(which was one of my first synths because it was affordable), also , synths like surge that just went free used to cost 99$ can can do way more than viper and now it's free. (plus surge is 64bit and no flowstone), I think it would be way easier to sell two copies of viper for 60$ each than 1 copy at 100$ each. And if that's the case, you're losing a chance to make more money!
~Pyrotek45

User avatar
bftucker
KVRian
1090 posts since 30 Apr, 2004 from Louisville, KY

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:41 pm

Adamtrance, just a word of encouragement.

I have not yet purchased Viper but it is on my want list and I think it is worth the price you ask for it. Just have to finish paying for HW I bought on credit first.

I wish Viper were more widely appreciated and that your hard work in emulating a classic synthesizer is richly rewarded.

Plus...and perhaps most importantly, I have no suggestions on what you may have done wrong or what you should do!

:ud:
바보

User avatar
Vertion
KVRist
479 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

Post Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:00 pm

This synth is amazing. I think it's the best synth I've ever seen in Flowstone, ever. I know Flowstone is slower than hard coded C++. Its current stable is only 32bit Win. Although, Flowstone can import from external libraries written in C/C++ as well, so performance can be enhanced dramatically. I once roamed the Synthmaker/FS fields with the purple buffalo, so I have insight here.. If anything, Szabo brought new life to FS. I own a license to Jp6k, would be nice to own Viper too.

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