Lush-101

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:39 am

chk071 wrote:LuSH-101 has a lot more features than TAL-101 though. The TAL one is rather a strict emulation, while LuSH-101 offers many things which go beyond that.
Yes I understand.

If D16 simply said 101 with additional features I'd have no comment, but to say virtually limitless sound design possibilities and only synthesizer I'll ever need. :dog:
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

User avatar
thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23024 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:42 am

8 layers with 8 insert FX per layer, a modulation matrix plus a mixer with compressor & 3 FX per layer isn't what I'd call a "basic monosynth" ... YMMV ;)

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:44 am

thecontrolcentre wrote:8 layers with 8 insert FX per layer, a modulation matrix plus a mixer with compressor & 3 FX per layer isn't what I'd call a "basic monosynth" ... YMMV ;)
Ok now we're getting somewhere. I mentioned earlier I hope to be proven wrong.

You say 8 inserts per layer. Only one is selectable at a time though right?
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

chk071
KVRAF
17044 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:57 am

Mushy Mushy wrote: If D16 simply said 101 with additional features I'd have no comment, but to say virtually limitless sound design possibilities and only synthesizer I'll ever need. :dog:
You know marketing. :D

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:00 am

chk071 wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote: If D16 simply said 101 with additional features I'd have no comment, but to say virtually limitless sound design possibilities and only synthesizer I'll ever need. :dog:
You know marketing. :D
I should point out I am a massive D16 fan and own all but Repeater. They've also gone above and beyond for me in the past so I don't want to throw them under the bus. Lavish marketing just really gets my goat.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
13892 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:30 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
chk071 wrote:LuSH-101 has a lot more features than TAL-101 though. The TAL one is rather a strict emulation, while LuSH-101 offers many things which go beyond that.
Yes I understand.

If D16 simply said 101 with additional features I'd have no comment, but to say virtually limitless sound design possibilities and only synthesizer I'll ever need. :dog:
It's a rather limited synth... the layers part is very well implemented... but I can easily layer synths however I want in my DAW so I don't consider the layers functionality of much use. So yeah, one layer by itself is not so interesting...

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:37 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:
chk071 wrote:LuSH-101 has a lot more features than TAL-101 though. The TAL one is rather a strict emulation, while LuSH-101 offers many things which go beyond that.
Yes I understand.

If D16 simply said 101 with additional features I'd have no comment, but to say virtually limitless sound design possibilities and only synthesizer I'll ever need. :dog:
It's a rather limited synth... the layers part is very well implemented... but I can easily layer synths however I want in my DAW so I don't consider the layers functionality of much use. So yeah, one layer by itself is not so interesting...
Layers in software land doesn't interest me at all. Sure it likely saves on some CPU but I'd happily lose them for an even average mod matrix. This one is pathetic with no LFO or envelope sources. The reason they give is layers :x
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

mholloway
KVRian
956 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:52 am

You guys seem to have rather limited imaginations when it comes to the possibilities of a synth.... "one layer isn't very interesting" Huh? Really?

One layer of LuSH-101 offers more programming functionality than 90% of vintage analog synths that everybody lusts after and begs for accurate emulations of... but somehow it's still not enough? If one layer of LuSH-101 is too limited for you synthesis wise, then you must HATE a synth like RePro-5, which has even less options for programming (just one LFO!!, etc).

IMHO it's also one of the best sounding analog emulations out there. I'm not going to say it's "better" than any u-he synth or whatever, I'm just asserting that it sounds really, really good.

I program LuSH-101 all the time, I have hundreds of patches I've made with it -- I'd say maybe 15% of them tops use more than one layer. I'm glad the layering system is there, but it's hardly the key feature that makes the synth interesting or valuable.

As for getting all bitchy about d16's marketing, uh hello, basic marketing 101; if you get upset about a company talking up their product, you must get upset A LOT...

One thing I do like about the multi-layer / broad structure of LuSH is that the mixing page is actually really useful. Sure, you can do this stuff in your DAW, but sometimes it's fun / convenient to add some EQ and send to a (very nice) delay or reverb (the latter is basically mini-Toraverb) to create your full sound. Many synths offer on board FX of course, but few offer this level of mixing depth -- sends with pre-fader option (I use this all the time for creating very wet pads), EQ on the sends, etc. It allows a level of sound design entirely within the synth that is fun and deep, and means you can load a patch anywhere and get the full enchilada right there, as it were.

just my two cents.
-M
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:54 am

mholloway wrote:You guys seem to have rather limited imaginations when it comes to the possibilities of a synth.... "one layer isn't very interesting" Huh? Really?

One layer of LuSH-101 offers more programming functionality than 90% of vintage analog synths that everybody lusts after and begs for accurate emulations of... but somehow it's still not enough? If one layer of LuSH-101 is too limited for you synthesis wise, then you must HATE a synth like RePro-5, which has even less options for programming (just one LFO!!, etc).

IMHO it's also one of the best sounding analog emulations out there. I'm not going to say it's "better" than any u-he synth or whatever, I'm just asserting that it sounds really, really good.

I program LuSH-101 all the time, I have hundreds of patches I've made with it -- I'd say maybe 15% of them tops use more than one layer. I'm glad the layering system is there, but it's hardly the key feature that makes the synth interesting or valuable.

As for getting all bitchy about d16's marketing, uh hello, basic marketing 101; if you get upset about a company talking up their product, you must get upset A LOT...

One thing I do like about the multi-layer / broad structure of LuSH is that the mixing page is actually really useful. Sure, you can do this stuff in your DAW, but sometimes it's fun / convenient to add some EQ and send to a (very nice) delay or reverb (the latter is basically mini-Toraverb) to create your full sound. Many synths offer on board FX of course, but few offer this level of mixing depth -- sends with pre-fader option (I use this all the time for creating very wet pads), EQ on the sends, etc. It allows a level of sound design entirely within the synth that is fun and deep, and means you can load a patch anywhere and get the full enchilada right there, as it were.

just my two cents.
-M
All of which I'd gladly trade for a useful mod matrix and/or >1 insert effect.

BTW, I'm not snarky about D16's marketing, only this particular product.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

mholloway
KVRian
956 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:55 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
It sounds superb but the modulation limitations are ridiculous. Can I not assign the vowel position to an LFO or an envelope? I can't even assign it to velocity!
You absolutely can assign it to velocity, but you came here shouting instead of learning about the synth you bought.

The mod matrix page is designed for MIDI control of synth parameters. Velocity is absolute one of those, and is available in the appropriate drop down. And yes, it can be mapped to FX parameters, they are available there as well.
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:57 am

mholloway wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:
It sounds superb but the modulation limitations are ridiculous. Can I not assign the vowel position to an LFO or an envelope? I can't even assign it to velocity!
You absolutely can assign it to velocity, but you came here shouting instead of learning about the synth you bought.

The mod matrix page is designed for MIDI control of synth parameters. Velocity is absolute one of those, and is available in the appropriate drop down. And yes, it can be mapped to FX parameters, they are available there as well.
Are you sure about that? I just checked AGAIN. When selecting velocity as the source the FX disappear from the destination list.

Oh and BTW, I have read the manual twice today and watched countless videos so don't say I haven't tried to learn it.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

mholloway
KVRian
956 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:01 am

Even though LuSH-101 is a vastly expanded emulation of the SH-101, the modulation is, yes, somewhat limited. The Mod Matrix page was only designed to route MIDI input controls to parameters -- mod wheel, velocity, some of the Arp triggers, etc. It does not allow you, as you've angrily observed, to route the modulators (LFO, envelope, etc) to parameters. So in that sense it's more like a 'traditional' analog synth, because obviously the SH-101 and others did not include mod matrices or "anything modulates anything" paradigms of control.

Frankly they should have called it "Performance Modulation Matrix" or something like that, so people wouldn't go looking for the LFOs in it and then get upset when they don't show up.

My point is, it's not like an oversight that they weren't included as mod sources in the matrix, it's clearly just how the whole thing was designed.

If you hate that fact, I get it, but remember, not every synth (and especially not an emulation) is about doing everything or allowing every possible option. If you want that stuff, go use Zebra 2 or something like that, those are designed for comprehensive control.
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am

From the manual:

"Note: It should be remembered that in the case of selecting Velocity or Pitch as a Source in the Modulation Matrix, there will be no access to all parameters in the Destination column, because both, Velocity and Pitch, are source controllers working per voice, and some of the parameters affect all Layer voices (e.g.Insert effects parameters). To those kind of parameters Velocity and Pitch sources cannot be assigned."
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

mholloway
KVRian
956 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:06 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:From the manual:

"Note: It should be remembered that in the case of selecting Velocity or Pitch as a Source in the Modulation Matrix, there will be no access to all parameters in the Destination column, because both, Velocity and Pitch, are source controllers working per voice, and some of the parameters affect all Layer voices (e.g.Insert effects parameters). To those kind of parameters Velocity and Pitch sources cannot be assigned."

Ah crap, ok you got me there. I frequently assign Modwheel ('modulation') to FX parameters and incorrectly assumed the same would work for Velocity. Too bad.

I was totally wrong on that, thanks for the correction.
Last edited by mholloway on Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
9979 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Lush-101

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:06 am

...
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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