Roland Cloud

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
reflekshun
KVRist
432 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Baltimore, MD

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:44 pm

DrGonzo wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:09 am
Gamma-UT wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:35 am
DrGonzo wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:05 am
Stefken wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:50 am
The demo period is free. Not much to lose except time to set things up...
True, but the next step matters.

If I am going to go into a model where I am paying them a monthly fee I would like to know exactly what I am getting and what I can expect from them. I really don't think that's too much to ask for.

/C
Bear in mind that even if it's two "permanent" licences obtained after a year, as the licence is cloud-dependent it only takes Roland pulling the plug on the service to render them unusable. As it's a joint venture, that probably won't happen soon but it is possible – if it were just Roland running it I'd be a lot more concerned about the future just based on Roland's pisspoor history of software support.

I have a sub personally, but for me it's very much based on the idea that it is a regular payment for some instruments that do sound very good and that printing stems is pretty much mandatory. as you never know what's round the corner.
Wise advice. Printing stems should be mandatory whatever you use. But yeah - I don't have any illusions when it comes to Roland and their "long term" plans. But the collection of plugs is starting to become more and more attractive so I'm really on the fence. Waiting to hear what support have to say first.

/C
There is one weird exception to this, which only applies if you own a System-8. You can load any 3 of those emulations on the system-8 and still have access to the sounds 'forever' or until the system-8 breaks or dies etc.

Emulations loaded onto the system-8 don't require ongoing online verification. They are permanently kept there.

It's not a solution by any means to this issue but I just thought it's worth mentioning!
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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2250 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 pm

reflekshun wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:44 pm
There is one weird exception to this, which only applies if you own a System-8. You can load any 3 of those emulations on the system-8 and still have access to the sounds 'forever' or until the system-8 breaks or dies etc.

Emulations loaded onto the system-8 don't require ongoing online verification. They are permanently kept there.
Yeah, I remember the same when I owned a System-1. It was great to have the new synth code in the System-1 whenever you turned it on. Problem with the S1 was/is that Roland quickly decided to stop making plugouts for it. The same for S8 I think?

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
AZURE for U-HE HIVE
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
11753 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:50 pm

DrGonzo wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 pm
reflekshun wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:44 pm
There is one weird exception to this, which only applies if you own a System-8. You can load any 3 of those emulations on the system-8 and still have access to the sounds 'forever' or until the system-8 breaks or dies etc.

Emulations loaded onto the system-8 don't require ongoing online verification. They are permanently kept there.
Yeah, I remember the same when I owned a System-1. It was great to have the new synth code in the System-1 whenever you turned it on. Problem with the S1 was/is that Roland quickly decided to stop making plugouts for it. The same for S8 I think?

/C
I'm not sure that's true. I don't own either but am sure I have read you can save your rented plugins into the slots. Yes even the rented ones.

EDIT: Although upon rereading your post I may have misunderstood you.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2250 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:56 pm

You mean I can download the new 303 to the S8? Or the sound engine of the 1080? If that's the case I'm ordering a S8 at this moment and I'll be their happiest cloud customer ever.

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
AZURE for U-HE HIVE
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
11753 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:00 am

DrGonzo wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:56 pm
You mean I can download the new 303 to the S8? Or the sound engine of the 1080? If that's the case I'm ordering a S8 at this moment and I'll be their happiest cloud customer ever.

/C
I would say yes to the 303 and a probably not to the 1080 based on the complexity of the latter.

I reiterate though I don't own either so could be talking out of my arse. It would be great to have it verified either way.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2250 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:26 am

Reading from the Roland US web page it seems this is not possible.

"In addition to the SYSTEM-8’s native engine, there are three expansion slots for hosting and controlling PLUG-OUT synths. These are complete, 100% authentic models that you can swap in and out of your SYSTEM-8 whenever you like. The JUPITER-8, JUNO-106, and JX-3P PLUG-OUTs are included, giving you immediate access to living, breathing recreations of these Roland classics. More PLUG-OUTs are available on Roland Cloud including the SH-2, SH-101, PROMARS, and SYSTEM-100, not to mention many other instruments which you can control from the SYSTEM-8’s panel. In Performance mode, you can combine the native synth engine and any hosted PLUG-OUTs to create super-synth patches with layered voices, custom splits, and more."

I think "plug-outs" and Roland Cloud plug-ins are two different things.
But I might be wrong. Anyone with a hardware S8 that can chime in?

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
AZURE for U-HE HIVE
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

db3
KVRAF
2123 posts since 22 Aug, 2012

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:32 am

Specific Roland Cloud plugins offer the plugout option for those with compatible hardware. The TB303 plugin does not have a plugout button.
-dthree-

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
11753 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:49 am

Ok thanks for clarifying and sorry for any confusion on my part.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

sacer
KVRian
549 posts since 8 Jan, 2012 from frankfurt, Germany

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:50 am

I think all mentioned roland plugouts use the same engine, I can rebuild all presets from sh-101, sh2 to jx-3p, juno106 and jupiter with TAl-Mod, and in most cases there is no difference to hear.
So maybe the 303 uses an other engine and so it's not compatible to S8.

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1957 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:33 am

sacer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:50 am
I think all mentioned roland plugouts use the same engine, I can rebuild all presets from sh-101, sh2 to jx-3p, juno106 and jupiter with TAl-Mod, and in most cases there is no difference to hear.
So maybe the 303 uses an other engine and so it's not compatible to S8.
It's not because a synth uses the same architecture , signal flow ( like 99% of subtractive synths ) that they uses the same sound engine
I am a big fan of talmod but seriously you can not replicate the sh101 on talmod , that why there is tal bassline
I had an extensive conversation with the developer patrick if he could update talmod with the sh101 filter and envelopes since these are a totally different design then those found in talmod , he says it was practilly impossible because of the difference in code .
Sure , you can get in the same ballpark , but that definitive wooden thumb sound that the sh101 delivers can not be achieved in talmod , not saying talmod doesn't do bass well , it surely does ..but it's filters are a lot more gentle comopared to the sh101
I can get talmod's filters to sound almost the same as the system 8 standard filters , just make sure talmod input drive and osc gain is set to max .
For the classic rolandish jx8p filter use two 2 pole filters in serial , summing the resonance of both filters ( controlled by P1 parameter )
But yeah , talmod is simply amazing and is up there with the best ananlogue modelled plugs , and the developer is a great dude too
:tu:
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

sacer
KVRian
549 posts since 8 Jan, 2012 from frankfurt, Germany

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:14 am

double post
Last edited by sacer on Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

sacer
KVRian
549 posts since 8 Jan, 2012 from frankfurt, Germany

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:16 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:33 am
sacer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:50 am
I think all mentioned roland plugouts use the same engine, I can rebuild all presets from sh-101, sh2 to jx-3p, juno106 and jupiter with TAl-Mod, and in most cases there is no difference to hear.
So maybe the 303 uses an other engine and so it's not compatible to S8.
It's not because a synth uses the same architecture , signal flow ( like 99% of subtractive synths ) that they uses the same sound engine
I am a big fan of talmod but seriously you can not replicate the sh101 on talmod , that why there is tal bassline
I had an extensive conversation with the developer patrick if he could update talmod with the sh101 filter and envelopes since these are a totally different design then those found in talmod , he says it was practilly impossible because of the difference in code .
Sure , you can get in the same ballpark , but that definitive wooden thumb sound that the sh101 delivers can not be achieved in talmod , not saying talmod doesn't do bass well , it surely does ..but it's filters are a lot more gentle comopared to the sh101
I can get talmod's filters to sound almost the same as the system 8 standard filters , just make sure talmod input drive and osc gain is set to max .
For the classic rolandish jx8p filter use two 2 pole filters in serial , summing the resonance of both filters ( controlled by P1 parameter )
But yeah , talmod is simply amazing and is up there with the best ananlogue modelled plugs , and the developer is a great dude too
:tu:
I used for sh101 patches tal-bassline and for 106 the tal unoLx and for jupiter8 the arturia one.
I haven't tried the 101 with tal mod, but the juno-106 was no problem with Tal-Mod so far. I rebuild all presets from JX-3P and SH-2 in TAL-Mod and also some Patches from System-8, Jupiter and Promars. So far i haven't tried the sh-101 in Tal Mod, but all other synths except the system-100 have been possible, but I think jupiter-8 could be difficult too. On System-8 I rebuild only some basic patches and on System-100 i have no SampleHold.
Tal sounds in most cases exact like roland , but with no disturbing noises like if you switch on the chorus on roland 106 / jx-3P.
The next advantage of Tal is the loading time and cpu consumption. roland plugouts need a time to load in ableton- maybe copy protection ?
If I compare the roland 303 in same settings with ABL3, I prefer the audiorealism one, sounds more punchy.
So the D-50 and System-100 and maybe system-8 have no other vst pendant.

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rezoneight
KVRist
77 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:32 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:35 am
Bear in mind that even if it's two "permanent" licences obtained after a year, as the licence is cloud-dependent it only takes Roland pulling the plug on the service to render them unusable. As it's a joint venture, that probably won't happen soon but it is possible – if it were just Roland running it I'd be a lot more concerned about the future just based on Roland's pisspoor history of software support.
The other option of course is that they announce the end of the Cloud product and release final updates for the instruments so that they no longer require cloud manager.

The thing that always amuses me in these conversations about subscription vs. non-subscription is that the people against subscriptions always seem to assume that the software they're buying outright will continue to be updated forever and that somehow if a company ends a subscription that the software will just stop working. As noted above if companies were going to do this they could just release updates to make the software keep working.

There clearly is a risk buying software no matter what, there is no guarantee anything will keep being updated and working.

There are also other options that companies could use, like the JetBrains development tools model where you have a subscription but you also get a permanent license for the latest version you had if you stopped paying for the subscription. Point being that companies have many options when it comes to how to deal with subscriptions and how the software works after a sub is over. It's not just a matter of "it stops working".

My preference is to pay for subscriptions for almost all the software I use on a regular basis. It sets up recurring revenue for the company and makes it easier for them to continue pushing out updates. I get that others might not like that but please stop acting like subscriptions are the devil. They aren't.

Stefken
KVRian
1351 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am

rezoneight wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:32 am
Gamma-UT wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:35 am
Bear in mind that even if it's two "permanent" licences obtained after a year, as the licence is cloud-dependent it only takes Roland pulling the plug on the service to render them unusable. As it's a joint venture, that probably won't happen soon but it is possible – if it were just Roland running it I'd be a lot more concerned about the future just based on Roland's pisspoor history of software support.
The other option of course is that they announce the end of the Cloud product and release final updates for the instruments so that they no longer require cloud manager.
What does history teach us?
Are there companies who have done this or do they just pull the plug.

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rezoneight
KVRist
77 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:32 am

Stefken wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:18 am
rezoneight wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:32 am
Gamma-UT wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:35 am
Bear in mind that even if it's two "permanent" licences obtained after a year, as the licence is cloud-dependent it only takes Roland pulling the plug on the service to render them unusable. As it's a joint venture, that probably won't happen soon but it is possible – if it were just Roland running it I'd be a lot more concerned about the future just based on Roland's pisspoor history of software support.
The other option of course is that they announce the end of the Cloud product and release final updates for the instruments so that they no longer require cloud manager.
What does history teach us?
Are there companies who have done this or do they just pull the plug.
History? Have software subscriptions been around long enough to teach us anything? I have quite a few at the moment from companies both very large and very small and NONE of them have pulled the plug. I can't say the same for companies that just stopped supporting stuff I paid for outright.

Again, there are lots of options. Agenda on the Mac, you pay a sub and once that year is up you keep whatever features they added up to that point if you decided to stop paying (or they decide to close up shop). Either way the software keeps working.

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