Roland Cloud

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Roland Cloud
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jasonekratz
KVRist
211 posts since 2 Nov, 2017

Post Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:42 pm

Pretty sure you can still buy the earlier ones outright but not sure if they're being uodated or not.

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Astralp
KVRAF
2120 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Post Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:01 pm

Ingonator wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I never used a JD-800 but if i just compare the features included in JD-800 and the JV-1080 plugin that plugin seems to include most or even all of the JD-800 features and some more.

The difference might be more in the basic sound (also the filter) than in the feature set.

The ROM of the JV-1080 plugin includes 1083 waveforms/samples and the multimode filter includes those modes: Off, LPF, BPF, HPF, PKG, LPF2, LPF3.

The interface of the JV-1080 plugin is closer to a JD-800 than to a hardware JV-1080 (or JV-2080).

You might find this interesting:

http://www.donsolaris.com/?p=404

I've had my JD800 since Roland blew them out in the late 90s. As the site above points out it's easy to distort the JD800 filter and when you do it sounds like shit. When you don't it still sounds like shit, at least by today's standards. While some people may go on and on about small details or about the absence of sample compression. None of that is why I bought a JD800 or anyone else I knew who was doing live techno at the time purchased a JD800.

The big win with the JD800 is that it is a rompler with a shit ton of knobs. The effects were good for the time, but still, just palesauce in contrast to it was a rompler with a shit ton of knobs.

Because of that, a lot of famous live acts used them and they have obtained something of a cult status. They sounded fine for the time, they are still usable, but even then they were still a rompler who's basic sound quality was quickly dated owing to the rom size limitations. I remember thinking that my K2KR completely blew it away in most respects, except, of course, that it did not have a shit ton of knobs.
Well the JV-1080 plugin overall has even more knobs and faders so the JD-800 has no big advantage in comparison. Not sure how far the filters in JD-800/JD-990 are better.

Besides that as already mentioned the JV-1080 plugin feature wise seems to be closer to the XV-5080 which includes having 1083 PCM waveforms (instead of 448 in JV-1080/2080), having 2 stereo (L + R) waveforms per tone and having the mod matrix.
I owned a JD-800 for many years and I'm always on the verge of buying another one, but they are so big and heavy. I loved the filter, the way it distorts and saturates is really good for Pads with tons of unique character. I haven't found another filter that does it quite the same. There is a big difference between the JD-800 and 1080 and 2080, whilst decent enough synths they have a different character to my ears as I've bought them in the past hoping that they would be similar. The 990 is apparently the same with a few extras, but part of the appeal is the sliders, it really is an interactive process which the 990 lacks.

Anyway, I hope that Roland do a JD-800 plug-in and that would most likely make me sign up for the cloud if it sounded like the real thing. Out of all the great gear I've bought and sold over the years, it is that synth that I miss the most.

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Ingonator
KVRAF
12522 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:05 pm

Ingonator wrote: Image
Just had a look at the "structures" in the JV-1080 plugin. The one in the screenshot is quite simple but along the 10 available there are more complex ones where 2 tones/layers are interacting in a way where you get two filters in series and/or add a ring modulator between the tones.
With those structures it is no longer a simple "layer" of 2 "tones" but more like a 2 Osc synth with a dual filter and ring modulation. With the second pair of 2 tones you could then layer a patch with a different "structure". You could also use this second pair of tones to add a detuned version of the other 2.
The plugin includes a copy/paste feature for the 4 tones.

I had just checked this and you could get a nice HPF/LPF filter combination (in series) like in e.g. a Jupiter-8 (and the ROM PCM waves also inlude some Jupiter waveshapes/samples...).
Ingo Weidner
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SLiC
KVRAF
8860 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:10 am

devPp wrote:
As I mentioned, I have a Roland system 1m in my modular so own some of the plugs to plug out. I bought the plugs, no issue with cpu when plugged out....but they were horrible cpu hogs and fugly when released (I don’t think anyone disputed that), I prefer the newer release GUIs and like I said, cpu use is now much better ....it was fun to try them again but I don’t think I personally need any 90s romplers....certainly not enough for subscription, but I remain open minded and will keep trying the stuff periodically (sorry if that bothers you)
you understood my point. you make contradictory claims. you either like it or not. you don't dismiss and praise all the same.

either you are interested or not. if you don't like it and you're not interested - stick to what you like.

I know why am I here and know what I want. I am here for Roland synths, not for Diva, Xils, TAL or otherwise. not so sure about you.

also, not all Roland Cloud synths are 90's romplers. you are obviously interested in some of these synths, that's why you stick around. so if you stick around and you don't stick to, say, Diva, which is a fugly CPU hog in its own right (ever tried Divine mode?), don't dismiss Roland for the same reasons. it's not fair.
I see nothing contradictory, it is possible to like some aspects of a plug in (such as the sound) and dislike others (such as the GUI)....it isn't a contradiction, it's completely normal. Its also possible to like all aspects of a plug in and not the distribution method or price...

I am here as I bought in to the Roland Plug Out Hardware. I own Promars and System 100 Plug-outs (pre-cloud) so given I spent a few hundred pounds on them I obviously like the sound, I use them as plug outs in my hardware so the CPU issues (which now seem to have been resolved) didn't bother me- I still think the System 100 GUI is FUGLY on my 4K monitor enlarged, but I don't use it much other than in hardware form with my modular. I hope Roland go back and improve the GUI on the early System 1 plug outs as this is my area of interest, so far they haven't, but they have greatly improved the CPU use so that is promising.
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Ingonator
KVRAF
12522 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:19 am

I just compard the waveform numbers and names in the JV-1080 plugin (which correspond to those in the XV-5080) to the waveform list in the JV-1080 manual.
While all PCM waveforms of teh JV-1080 are included they do not have the same waveform numbers.
For example the first wave of the JV-1080 called "AcPiano1 A" in the JV-1080 plugin (and in XV-5080) is found at position 19 in the list.

If Roland adds Sysex import for JV-1080 banks the converter would have to take care of the different waveform numbers.

I had checked this because i was a bit puzzled that the first 448 PCM waveforms in the plugin (the real JV-1080 "only" included 448 waves) did only include very few synth waveforms and none of the standard analog waveforms. Of course those were also included with the JV-1080 hardware but at different waveform numbers than in teh JV-1080 plugin (and the XV-5080).

The analog standard waveforms in the JV-1080 plugin start with wave No. 529 called "Synth Saw 1".
Last edited by Ingonator on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
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Caine123
KVRAF
7253 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:21 am

Ingonator wrote:I just compard the waveform numbers and names in the JV-1080 plugin which correspond to those in the XV-5080 to the waveform list in teh JV-1080 manual.
While all PCM waveforms of teh JV-1080 are included they do not have the same waveform numbers.
For example the first wave of the JV-1080 called "AcPiano1 A" in the JV-1080 plugin (and in XV-5080) is found at position 19 in the list.

If Roland adds Sysex import for JV-1080 banks the converter would have to take care of the different waveform numbers.

I had checked this because i was a bit puzzled that the first 448 PCM waveforms in the plugin (the real JV-1080 "only" included 448 waves) did only include very few synth waveforms and none of the standard analog waveforms. Of course those were also included with the JV-1080 hardware but at different waveform numbers than in teh JV-1080 plugin (and the XV-5080).

The analog standard waveforms in the JV-1080 plugin start with wave No. 529 called "Synth Saw 1".
thanks ingo, so if i understand correctly the JV-1080 plugin could maybe reproduce all XV-5080 presets?
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Ingonator
KVRAF
12522 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:30 am

Caine123 wrote: thanks ingo, so if i understand correctly the JV-1080 plugin could maybe reproduce all XV-5080 presets?
I mentioned that all XV-5080 waveforms are included. Having those and having an exact replication of the XV-5080 engine are two different things.

I had downloaded the manuals of both JV-1080 and XV-5080 and would have to compare all parameters in the plugin to see which features were found in the real JV-1080 and which are additional ones that could fit to the XV-5080.

FWIW at the previous page i posted screenshots of all edit pages in the plugin. Overall the feature set in the plugin is quite impressive IMO.
Ingo Weidner
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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
4953 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:51 am

Synthesis wise the jv is identical to the xv and to the integra 7 (pcm part ) iow almost every other roland rompler in existence .

The jd 990 was the first rompler to include the 'osc .structures' ( it only had 6 ) the jd 880 had no osc.structures ,
Then the jv 1080 which came afterwards got rid of the osc.sync and added some more osc .strucures ( 3/4 ) which added a BOOST either pre/post filter 1..for really aggresssive sounds .
But no more osc.sync.
All of these can be found in jv1080/2080 xv3080/5080 fantom and integra .
It's called the Roland PCM engine :D ..and the jd990 is the grandaddy of them all

The jv or jd loaded with vintage card gives you enough analogue style waveforoms to get you bussy .
Sure what the roland romlers don't do
-No filter fm at audio rate .
-No real FM ( only xmf which uses a built in square osc to modulate the freq.of a partial ) ..good for drum sounds
-No osc sync etc..( only found on jd 990 in mono )
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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Ingonator
KVRAF
12522 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:01 am

After having another look into the JV-1080 manual the plugin seems to include almost the double amount of FX modes.
Like with the PCM waveforms (as i mentioned above) the numbers of the FXs in the list do not seem to fit to those in the original JV-1080.

Also checked the filter modes in the JV-1080 manual and the plugin includes two additional modes called "LPF2" and "LPF3" that opposing to the "LPF" mode seem to be non-resonant.

I had printed the parameter list of JV-1080 and will try to compare to the plugin soon.

Even without a detailed comparison it is already quite clear that the plugin offers more than the real thing did where the enhanced PCM waves ROM is a big and importantt part of the advanced features.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
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beely
KVRAF
2160 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:59 am

Ingonator wrote:For example the first wave of the JV-1080 called "AcPiano1 A" in the JV-1080 plugin (and in XV-5080) is found at position 19 in the list.

If Roland adds Sysex import for JV-1080 banks the converter would have to take care of the different waveform numbers.
Well, I might sort out a sysex import before then, as I did for the D50, as I'd like to get my 5080 patches into the plugin, if the architecture supports it - and there are quite a few 1080 patches out there it would be nice to gain access to.

I'll be checking this out at some time during the holidays...

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
4953 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:18 am

Well o.k. .;the jv 1080 didn't have the lpf 2/lpf 3 filters
These are steeper non resonant low pass filters .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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sinemotor
KVRist
351 posts since 24 Dec, 2015

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:49 am

beely wrote:Well, I might sort out a sysex import before then, as I did for the D50, as I'd like to get my 5080 patches into the plugin, if the architecture supports it - and there are quite a few 1080 patches out there it would be nice to gain access to.
The JV-1080 VST has the 128 user-bank patches from the JV-2080 and it has indeed all the XV-5080 waveforms however it doesn't have all its effects (12 FXs are missing I think). Yes, Maybe the architecture is a bit different too. I don't know if it's possible to get XV patches then.

Saukar30
KVRian
1391 posts since 2 Mar, 2005

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:13 am

This jv 1080 looks really good. I really wish they would have the option to just buy the plugin vs the subcription method.
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Ingonator
KVRAF
12522 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:08 pm

sinemotor wrote:
beely wrote:Well, I might sort out a sysex import before then, as I did for the D50, as I'd like to get my 5080 patches into the plugin, if the architecture supports it - and there are quite a few 1080 patches out there it would be nice to gain access to.
The JV-1080 VST has the 128 user-bank patches from the JV-2080 and it has indeed all the XV-5080 waveforms however it doesn't have all its effects (12 FXs are missing I think). Yes, Maybe the architecture is a bit different too. I don't know if it's possible to get XV patches then.
Just had a look in the XV-3080 manual and this includes 63 effects in the "Patch MFX" section while the JV-1080 plugin has 78. In terms of effects amount the plugin seems to be somewhere between the XV-3080 and XV-5080.
gentleclockdivider wrote:Well o.k. .;the jv 1080 didn't have the lpf 2/lpf 3 filters
These are steeper non resonant low pass filters .
The additional "LPF 2" and "LPF 3" filters that are included in the JV-1080 plugin also seem to be included in the XV-3080/5080 (found them in the manuals).
Found this about the LPF 2 and LPF 3 filter modes:
- LPF2: Low Pass Filter 2. This reduces the volume of all frequencies above the cutoff frequency. This differs from LPF in that you can control the amount of the reduction using the TVF ENVELOPE settings while still maintaining a fixed cutoff frequency.
This can be very effective with acoustic-instrument-based Tones, since nothing is done to weaken the power and energy of the sound.
* This disables the Resonance setting.
- LPF3: Low Pass Filter 3 reduces the volume of frequencies above the cutoff frequency. While similar to LPF2, it filter reduces the frequencies more gently than LPF2. This can be very effective with acoustic-instrument-based Tones, since nothing is done to weaken the power and energy of the sound.
* This disables the Resonance setting
The waveforms list in XV-3080 is similar to that in XV-5080 and the JV-1080 plugin.
Like those XV modules the JV-1080 plugin offers true stereo PCM waveforms (L + R waveforms for each of the 4 Tones).


Overall most parts of the synth engine in the JV-1080 plugin indeed seem to be similar to the XV-3080/5080 synths also including the 10 "Structures" (which defines how 2 of the 4 tones are linked/routed which could include serial filters, a ringmod and/or a "booster").
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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sinemotor
KVRist
351 posts since 24 Dec, 2015

Post Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:48 pm

Ingonator wrote:In terms of effects amount the plugin seems to be somewhere between the XV-3080 and XV-5080.
So the plugin is a XV-4080 emulation then. :wink:

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