Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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exmatproton
KVRAF
2635 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:51 pm

ghettosynth wrote: I think that anyone disagreeing with me is missing the point. It's not about how "I" deal with it, or how "you" deal with it. It's about what is offputting about Bazille to some people.
In that case, you should be a bit more concrete/complete/careful in what you say;

"I don't think that you can treat Bazille as an ordinary modular and avoid this because, as VA oscillators, Bazille's oscillators are fairly tame."

Now, if this is your point; "It's not about how "I" deal with it, or how "you" deal with it. It's about what is offputting about Bazille to some people." > then sure, whatever. :tu:
But using words like 'you', are, when taken literally, not to the point, when you actually mean something different/somebody else.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
18513 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:52 pm

Know what? I'm bored. I'm gonna let you guys continue this pathetic lynching without me. I have better things to do with my time.

Don't expect anymore replies from me to this train wreck.

You're just not worth it.

Over and out.

urosh
KVRist
232 posts since 4 Oct, 2002

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:54 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
I don't think that you can treat Bazille as an ordinary modular and avoid this because, as VA oscillators, Bazille's oscillators are fairly tame.
Fairly tame?

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:56 pm

brainzistor wrote:
wagtunes wrote: Yes, I owned a DX7 for 30 years. Yes, I could program it inside and out. No, I didn't care what kind of synthesizer it was.
In fact, it's not an FM synthesizer at all but we won't get into that.
Newsflash...
He's just talking about this. Anyone who's been around DX7s for decades knows this fact, it has been brought up numerous times in various contexts, some meaningful, most pointless.

https://moinsound.wordpress.com/2011/03 ... hnologies/

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fmr
KVRAF
9311 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:57 pm

I presume wagtunes is referring to the fact that the method used is Phase Modulation and not Frequency Modulation (which, considering that the DX7 only used sine waves, results in about the same sound). Although FM and PM are not exactly the same, the sound only differs substantially if the elements used - carrier and/or modulator - are complex waves). Nemesis, from Tone 2, allegedly. implements both forms - FM and PM. This site has a good (IMO) and somehow clear explanation: https://moinsound.wordpress.com/2011/03 ... hnologies/

EDIT: And ghettosynth beat me :x

here is another link, this time from Bill Shottstaedt, admitedly a big specialist and enthusiast of FM synthesis (purely done in computer), where, at a certain point, he says: "In PM we change the phase, in FM we change the phase increment, and to go from FM to PM, integrate the FM modulating signal. But you can't tell which is in use from the output waveform; you have to know what the modulating signal is. In sound synthesis, where we can do what we want with the modulating signal, there is no essential difference between frequency and phase modulation."
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/snd/fm.html
Last edited by fmr on Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Fernando (FMR)

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:58 pm

exmatproton wrote:
ghettosynth wrote: I think that anyone disagreeing with me is missing the point. It's not about how "I" deal with it, or how "you" deal with it. It's about what is offputting about Bazille to some people.
In that case, you should be a bit more concrete/complete/careful in what you say;
This isn't a science paper, it's a forum. Try to go back and read the thread in context and with the intent that's there. Why is it that sloppy people always want other people to be precise when their own sloppy arguments are shown to not have merit?
Last edited by ghettosynth on Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:01 pm

urosh wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
I don't think that you can treat Bazille as an ordinary modular and avoid this because, as VA oscillators, Bazille's oscillators are fairly tame.
Fairly tame?
Yes, I've explained in detail, are you just looking for an argument, or are you really that reading challenged.

As VA oscillators, they are fairly tame. They do not create nice bandlimited sawtooth waves. To get the different VA waveforms one has to work, there isn't a simple selection. The only VA waveform that is trivial to obtain in high quality is the sin wave.

User avatar
exmatproton
KVRAF
2635 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:03 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
exmatproton wrote:
ghettosynth wrote: I think that anyone disagreeing with me is missing the point. It's not about how "I" deal with it, or how "you" deal with it. It's about what is offputting about Bazille to some people.
In that case, you should be a bit more concrete/complete/careful in what you say;
This isn't a science paper, it's a forum. Try to go back and read the thread in context and with the intent that's there. Why is it that sloppy people always want other people to be precise when their arguments are shown to not have merit?
I can't answer your last question, since i think it is a generalisation of which i have no data...

I am not saying it is exact science either...i was just reacting on a sentence with some "hard" words, which isn't right btw, since there are clearly people who can treat Bazille as an ordinary modular (to use your words). But, whatever....let's all go make some music, instead of this pointless bickering :tu:

User avatar
zenophilix
KVRian
776 posts since 21 Apr, 2016

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:04 pm

exmatproton wrote:let's all go make some music, instead of this pointless bickering :tu:
One step ahead of you. If only I could make Bazille CM work. :lol:
Nobody, Ever wrote:I have enough plugins.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:06 pm

zenophilix wrote:
exmatproton wrote:let's all go make some music, instead of this pointless bickering :tu:
One step ahead of you. If only I could make Bazille CM work. :lol:
Why can't you make it work?

urosh
KVRist
232 posts since 4 Oct, 2002

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:08 pm

fmr wrote: Although FM and PM are not exactly the same, the sound only differs substantially if the elements used - carrier and/or modulator - are complex waves
1) Modulator is complex wave in quite few classic Yamaha algorithms (because it's PMed by another oscillator)
2) PM is completely insensitive to any DC/lowfreq/transient signal at modulation input, quite very unlike FM

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
4259 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:11 pm

:clown: Quite entertaining post.

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
4259 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:12 pm

:party: Nothing to prepare for xmas?

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
4259 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:14 pm

:phones: :clap: By the way: I love Bazille

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fmr
KVRAF
9311 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Bazille - most misunderstood synth?

Post Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:16 pm

urosh wrote:
fmr wrote: Although FM and PM are not exactly the same, the sound only differs substantially if the elements used - carrier and/or modulator - are complex waves
1) Modulator is complex wave in quite few classic Yamaha algorithms (because it's PMed by another oscillator)
2) PM is completely insensitive to any DC/lowfreq/transient signal at modulation input, quite very unlike FM
As I posted above, according to Bill Shottstaedt "In sound synthesis, where we can do what we want with the modulating signal, there is no essential difference between frequency and phase modulation". Besides, I have Nemesis too, and I see no substantial difference between what they call True FM or Neo FM (don't recall exactly), and classic FM (PM). What I found, purely by experimentation, is that PM is a little more controllable.
Fernando (FMR)

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