Modern soft synths

[gentleclockdivider]

Sure physical modeling can use filtering .

Modal bank has up 10'000 bp filters , ready to be excited by an impulse or/and noise .
Here ...I made one for you ...only 32 partials .
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... show/7735/
The modal and sine bank are fantastic modules and to me these modules alone justify the cost of reaktor .

[wagtunes]

Okay, here's what I did. Or should I say, what I tried. Something very simple.

I pulled up one of my first ensembles that I made with Reaktor 5.

Here's what's in it.

Note Pitch
Gate
OSC 1
OSC 2
ADSR-Env
Filter-Env
4 Pole Filter
Mixer
Fader OSC 1
Fader OSC 2
Audio Voice Container
Output

All I then tried to do is remove the 4 Pole Filter (which by the way I can't even find in the available parts anymore) with a zdf filter.

For starters, I can't find a zdf filter. I right click on the environment, go to Built In Module, Filter and I don't see anything that says zdf filter. I then went to Library, Filters and found 4 filters. None of them say zdf.

So, I went back to Built In Module, Filter and just pulled up any filter just to see if I can replace one with another. Couldn't find a filter with the same connections as the 4 pole filter. So I pulled up something close and connected what I could.

Here's where things get interesting.

Deleting the old filter and going back to the part of the system that actually shows you the synth that looks like a synth, the UI is still showing the graphic for the 4 pole filter and not the new one. I can tell the new one is connected because the sound is coming through, but I can't adjust the filter cutoff because whatever control that is, internally, because the inputs don't match to the old filter, it simply doesn't work.

Are you understanding now why I hate this system? I don't know where anything is. I don't understand what connectors I need for some of these slots and I don't like working with this schematic like view. I don't have this problem with any other modular synth. I know where the parts are. I know how to pull them up and I know how to connect them.

Reaktor, not so much.

So where are these zdf filters? Where do I find them and what are they called?

The zdf filters are 'core macro's

O.K .create a new empty core cell ; don't be afraid .
-audio-filter-ladder-four pole
Don't worry they are all zdf filters .You can use the pick up bundle to switch between multiple filter types ...see screenshot .
It never hurts to read the info discplayed at the left .
If this is over your head , then yeah ...sorry ..



Under library filter there you have filter and V.A. filter ..these are zdf too , .
The v.A.filter slope/type is wired up wrong ...see my previous post /screenshot
You do have more filter options if you just go into core and please ---> rtfm.

Well, I started but I'm stuck. I can't find a lot of stuff that used to be in Reaktor 5, like audio in. Seems to have either been removed or replaced with something else or moved somewhere.

As for RTFM I actually attempted that when I first started with Reaktor. And we're not talking about a hundred page manual here. We're talking hundreds and hundreds of pages. I felt like I was back in school. My head started to hurt.

Thanks, but again, I'll pass.

[stratum]

Just curious - do you guys have any time to actually compose music? It has been a very long time since have heard an interesting new tune. Perhaps that shouldn't be very surprizing if everyone is lost in blocks and filters.

[pdxindy]

Reaktor is not a modular synth. It is a development environment that does not function particularly effectively as a modular synth. It has had too many layers added to it over the years so it is kinda like a frankenstein monster. It needs a complete re-visioning to be able to function well as a modular synth and also be a deeper development platform.

Blocks are that reenvisioning, in a way - and they function perfectly well as a modular synth. Anything else won't happen, because that'd be throwing 20 years of development down the bin, and would kill backwards compatibility.

I think it is time that NI killed backwards compatibility. Make a ground-up new Reaktor 7 and keep doing OS and bug updates to 6 for some years to come.

[Cinebient]

Back to topic.
I think a modern synth should have a modern GUI as well.
An exampel are some tiny apps like Finger Fiddle which are the best physical modeled strings i heard where you can morph articulations in real time and play it more like a real instrument onna touch screen. Or the Moog Model 15 app which sounds more expressive played on an smartphone than many big desktop synths.
There are other examples like Dust, the binaural synth. The GUI is modern and futuristic too me and it does some unique things.
A great filter and FX is not the holy grail of workflow.
Reaktor is great and open but also limited in so many ways of interacting with sound and GUI compared to other tools.
Anyway i always layer different synths and FX.
I think most people do.
So, what is a modern synth?

[EvilDragon]

Reaktor is not a modular synth. It is a development environment that does not function particularly effectively as a modular synth. It has had too many layers added to it over the years so it is kinda like a frankenstein monster. It needs a complete re-visioning to be able to function well as a modular synth and also be a deeper development platform.

Blocks are that reenvisioning, in a way - and they function perfectly well as a modular synth. Anything else won't happen, because that'd be throwing 20 years of development down the bin, and would kill backwards compatibility.

I think it is time that NI killed backwards compatibility. Make a ground-up new Reaktor 7 and keep doing OS and bug updates to 6 for some years to come.

Snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

[Urs]

For the last time, synths LIKE Zebra, have no place in my studio. Your enthusiasm for your products is not going to change that.

I never doubted that. Seriously, I never did.

So, now that that's out, what Modern Synth would you recommend to the OP?

[gentleclockdivider]

@ wagtunes .
Yes ,all the macros prior to 6 have been removed , why because they are now replaced with better sounding macros .
You can still point to a user defined directory if you wish to use them .

So , all there is left to say is that you failed to insert a zdf filter , because you didn't look hard enough .
It's all described in the manual were the new zdf are located , yes ...CORE is the name of the game .
I don't get people like you , buying into a piece of software then complaining that themanual is to big .
Why did you buy it in the first place , Ahh right ...the N.I. promo team did a great job fooling people into believing reaktor was a piece of cake and BLOCKS are monophonic ...

[gentleclockdivider]

For the last time, synths LIKE Zebra, have no place in my studio. Your enthusiasm for your products is not going to change that.

I never doubted that. Seriously, I never did.

So, now that that's out, what Modern Synth would you recommend to the OP?

ZebRaktor

[wagtunes]

@ wagtunes .
Yes ,all the macros prior to 6 have been removed , why because they are now replaced with better sounding macros .
You can still point to a user defined directory if you wish to use them .

So , all there is left to say is that you failed to insert a zdf filter , because you didn't look hard enough .
It's all described in the manual were the new zdf are located , yes ...CORE is the name of the game .
I don't get people like you , buying into a piece of software then complaining that themanual is to big .
Why did you buy it in the first place , Ahh right ...the N.I. promo team did a great job fooling people into believing reaktor was a piece of cake and BLOCKS are monophonic ...

I bought Reaktor 6 for blocks and yes, they aren't too difficult to connect. But the problem is their CPU usage. Had I known that was going to be such a big problem even after upgrading my PC to "supposedly" deal with it, I probably would have never gotten it.

I mean the truth is, blocks sound amazing. And I'd be perfectly content with simply programming patches on whatever ensembles they included. But when I can't use more than 1 or 2 ensembles in a project before my I7 screams for mercy, that's a problem.

Creating something that 99% of the people using it can't use due to CPU consumption seems rather ridiculous to me.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just one of those stupid people who can't be bothered to RTFM.

[ghettosynth]

Look at Steampipe in the Classics/Synthesizer collection (the original, not version II, although it might be the same). The first two patches, flute and pan, make use of resonance in the resonant filter that's in the signal path.

Since I do like Physical Modeling, Steampipe is one of the first instruments I tried when I first got Reaktor. I was thoroughly disappointed with it compared to the other PM stuff I had at the time.

When the PM part is basically crap, then yeah, one starts adding filters to try to make it of use.

Well, I have some of the AAS stuff and I don't think that, by comparison, Steampipe is crap, but it was just an example. The point holds. Really excellent sample based instruments make use of filters and there's no reason why physical modeling would be any different.

It's just a tool and your argument comes across as justification for your position. It's something that you don't have access to. You either have to accept the quality of AAS filters or you have to create PM instruments without high quality filters.

I simply don't buy into purist approaches. You can make no claims about what is "needed", only about what you find valuable. It's like saying guitar players don't need distortion.

It may be just the right sound to have a physical modeled guitar tone against a granular pad both filtered per voice by a high quality ZDF filter.

[jancivil]

Steampipe always sounds fantastic to me. So here I have to agree with ghetto, that's just an argument for the sake of a staked-out position, in the abstract, and it appears about some technological lingo to me. Who cares? No one is impressed by that.

[jancivil]

... their CPU usage. Had I known that was going to be such a big problem even after upgrading my PC to "supposedly" deal with it, I probably would have never gotten it.

Hmmm. Must be 'PC'. It's quite negligible on my "duo-core" mid-2010 MBPro.

[gentleclockdivider]

@ wagtunes .
Yes ,all the macros prior to 6 have been removed , why because they are now replaced with better sounding macros .
You can still point to a user defined directory if you wish to use them .

So , all there is left to say is that you failed to insert a zdf filter , because you didn't look hard enough .
It's all described in the manual were the new zdf are located , yes ...CORE is the name of the game .
I don't get people like you , buying into a piece of software then complaining that themanual is to big .
Why did you buy it in the first place , Ahh right ...the N.I. promo team did a great job fooling people into believing reaktor was a piece of cake and BLOCKS are monophonic ...

I bought Reaktor 6 for blocks and yes, they aren't too difficult to connect. But the problem is their CPU usage. Had I known that was going to be such a big problem even after upgrading my PC to "supposedly" deal with it, I probably would have never gotten it.

I mean the truth is, blocks sound amazing. And I'd be perfectly content with simply programming patches on whatever ensembles they included. But when I can't use more than 1 or 2 ensembles in a project before my I7 screams for mercy, that's a problem.

Creating something that 99% of the people using it can't use due to CPU consumption seems rather ridiculous to me.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just one of those stupid people who can't be bothered to RTFM.

If you don't need audio rate interconnectivity all the way , then don't use blocks .
Like , I have said ...blocks was a genius marketing stunt to cash in ..

[ghettosynth]

Back to topic.
There are other examples like Dust, the binaural synth. The GUI is modern and futuristic too me and it does some unique things.

Independent of what people mean by modern, I used Dust a few pages back as an example of a synth that I think is unique. I have it, FWIW.

It has nothing to do with being "futuristic" though, for me, it's just function. Mapping gravity and projectile motion to sound is interesting and fun, and, as I said, doing that in Reaktor is a pain.

A great filter and FX is not the holy grail of workflow.
Reaktor is great and open but also limited in so many ways of interacting with sound and GUI compared to other tools.

Which is where other synths fit. I'm not at all arguing specifically for Reaktor, I really don't care if non-devs use it. I am happy that they buy it. I just think that focusing on things like "the number of oscillators and modulators" is missing the point. If that's your criteria then Reaktor will give you much more depth.

So, what is a modern synth?

Great question. I'm not sure that there's much consensus.