Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
pigfront
KVRist
55 posts since 20 Sep, 2010

Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:14 am

Hello again,
I'm back again, with problem of automation I posted previously. This time I made screeshot, where visible point of problem.
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FathomSynth
KVRian
1023 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:48 pm

Please state exactly what is going wrong.
What the expected behavior is and the observed behavior.
And then list the exact steps necessary to reproduce the problem.
If you already did this then please list the forum page here where you reported the problem.

pigfront
KVRist
55 posts since 20 Sep, 2010

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:33 pm

Problem is cutoff values are to fast, when cutoff knob is assigned to host automation parameters. How you see in picture, cutoff and resonance are assigned to host automation. Both sliders are set to equal small value (10 %), and in Fathom knobs positions are far from equal. Cutoff knob are to fast and it is impossible record smooth filter sweeps. Can you make cutoff knob matching 1 :1 with host automation parameters, like any other knob in Fathom.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1023 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:39 pm

No sorry it's not possible.

That dial is not linear and I can't change it because the human perception of frequency is not linear. The perceived difference between 10 Hz and 100 Hz is approximately equal to the perceived difference of 100 Hz and 1000 Hz, etc. If I make the dial linear then it will sound horrible.

In the future I will be changing all filter frequency dials to logarithmic and then the host automation signal levels will more closely match the dial range because the host automation range will also be logarithmic to match the dial.

However, even then the same host level will not exactly match on the Frequency and Resonance dials since they are completely different dials and one has a log range and the other does not. So they will never perfectly line up.

The only thing I can promise is that the host range of 0.0 to 1.0 will always map to the complete range of any dial.

pigfront
KVRist
55 posts since 20 Sep, 2010

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:23 pm

I dont understand, why it is not possible, but knob turned with mouse in Fathom interface goes smooth, and I can set small values wit small steps. Also in others synths it is possible. Anyway thanks, I cant use Fathom at the moment, I'll wait for better times.

jbraner
KVRian
903 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:17 am

Is there anything you can change in the MIDI controller settings?

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2245 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:11 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:39 pm
No sorry it's not possible.

That dial is not linear and I can't change it because the human perception of frequency is not linear. The perceived difference between 10 Hz and 100 Hz is approximately equal to the perceived difference of 100 Hz and 1000 Hz, etc. If I make the dial linear then it will sound horrible.

In the future I will be changing all filter frequency dials to logarithmic and then the host automation signal levels will more closely match the dial range because the host automation range will also be logarithmic to match the dial.

However, even then the same host level will not exactly match on the Frequency and Resonance dials since they are completely different dials and one has a log range and the other does not. So they will never perfectly line up.

The only thing I can promise is that the host range of 0.0 to 1.0 will always map to the complete range of any dial.
He is asking to map the host value to the position of the knob instead of mapping it to the parameter itself. That certainly is possible and makes sense as well and would be what is to be expected...

FathomSynth
KVRian
1023 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:56 am

Yes, technically you are right it would be possible to map the host signal to the dial position.

In this case however it would not give you a clean sweep since the frequency dial currently has zones and is neither linear or even logarithmic. It would produce a jagged sweep.

Therefore, mapping it to the dial position would not give you what you want.

Pigfront I think what you are looking for is a logarithmic sweep on the frequency.

This could be done, yes.

Furthermore (I just realized) it could be done now instead of waiting until I change the frequency dials to logarithmic.

I think this would give you what you are looking for because the host signal 0.0 - 1.0 would map to frequency 10-20,000:

Host 0.0 - 1.0 => Frequency 10^1=10 - 10^4.3=20,000
Where 0.0-10 => maps to the exponent 1-4.3.

This would produce the clean sweep you hear in other synths which have log frequency dials.

I can get this into the next release if you like.

Sorry, if I seemed resistant, I did not think of the fact that this could be done now instead of waiting until the dial redesign.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2245 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:12 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:56 am
Yes, technically you are right it would be possible to map the host signal to the dial position.

In this case however it would not give you a clean sweep since the frequency dial currently has zones and is neither linear or even logarithmic. It would produce a jagged sweep.

Therefore, mapping it to the dial position would not give you what you want.

Pigfront I think what you are looking for is a logarithmic sweep on the frequency.

This could be done, yes.

Furthermore (I just realized) it could be done now instead of waiting until I change the frequency dials to logarithmic.

I think this would give you what you are looking for because the host signal 0.0 - 1.0 would map to frequency 10-20,000:

Host 0.0 - 1.0 => Frequency 10^1=10 - 10^4.3=20,000
Where 0.0-10 => maps to the exponent 1-4.3.

This would produce the clean sweep you hear in other synths which have log frequency dials.

I can get this into the next release if you like.

Sorry, if I seemed resistant, I did not think of the fact that this could be done now instead of waiting until the dial redesign.
For frequency dials it would also be nice to be able to define a range. You rarely need to go below 20... and above lets say 12 kHz, sometimes much less. And yes a logarithmic dial should have no zones...; - ). Especially if you have physical knobs to tweak, you want to be able to use the complete range of your knob... And it should be able to do 14-bit cc, especially for frequencies to be able to tune exactly and by ear... (needs a 14-bit capable controller of course...)

FathomSynth
KVRian
1023 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:43 am

OK, I'll try to get this in the next release.

pigfront
KVRist
55 posts since 20 Sep, 2010

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:59 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:56 am

I can get this into the next release if you like.
It would be amazing.

glokraw
KVRAF
6752 posts since 6 Oct, 2004

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:35 pm

My top two alltime favorite presets are filter sweeps.
Ready for the next Fathom update, and learning
how to replicate/improve them !!!
:hyper: $$$ :hyper:

User avatar
AmbieticA
KVRer
20 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:46 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:43 am
OK, I'll try to get this in the next release.
Would this update affect any previously modulated programmed controller sweeps from an earlier version, that would have to be re-adjusted at a micro parameter level to fit the new update?

FN: I'm 99.08% sure I just made Fathom sound like 3 authentic Vangelis CS80 multi-tracks in one patch. Track 1: Kick (sequenced), Track 2: Bass (sequenced), Track 3: Pad (static). The .02% is the Pads lower cutoff, but the Mod Wheel takes care of that in the end. :D
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

User avatar
AmbieticA
KVRer
20 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:16 am

*Deleted the clone post. How weird.
Last edited by AmbieticA on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2245 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.28 Released

Post Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:18 am

That's a tough one - backwards compatibility. Either have a choice how automation/modulation should affect the parameter (vintage - knob - direct) Or have a legacy mode which would keep that hidden but would treat formerly saved patches as they had been treated before. That requires some information which version had been used to create a preset and a little warning if you are about to overwrite it...
I would actually prefer that over too many choices. (Nobody ever would want to control a frequency linear ever (except for lucky accidents of course...; - )

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