Fathom Synth Thread

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
AmbieticA
KVRist
34 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Post Sat May 11, 2019 3:58 pm

FathomSynth wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:39 am
You are in the confusion stage right now with Fathom, and it will last about a day. But if you stick with it you will find yourself not wanting to use those other synths at all.
Already there ...Thanks to Fathom, I didn't sleep for like 2 months. Fathom has one drawback ...it creates the need to purchase more Coffee than usual :lol: There's so much more I haven't done with Fathom yet, so of course this "sleep break" probably wont last too long :lol:
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

FathomSynth
KVRian
1077 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Sat May 11, 2019 5:08 pm

:borg: Shonky, you started out by making general comments about the whole interface being confusing, so it's difficult for me to come up with anything helpful in that situation.

If you started with a specific request such as "Please add the detune page to the user manual" it would be much more helpful.

Your statement that this synth is generally confusing and your other synths are not confusing, sort of makes me wonder why you are using this synth at all. If you are looking for simple over deep then there are much easier synths to use than Fathom.

:phones: Ambietica, Ha ha, tell me about it, I just bought a coffee bean grinder today myself and a new coffee maker.

Which reminds me, everyone, check out the new sound bank!

https://www.fathomsynth.com/banks

shonky
KVRian
876 posts since 21 Nov, 2005

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Sat May 11, 2019 9:27 pm

I never mentioned the "whole interface being confusing", neither have I said that I'm only interested in simple synths (I've delved into Harmor, no great thanks to IL's "help" guide), just that some of the parameter names are somewhat idiosyncratic and not exactly helpful.

But yes, a unison and distortion section in the manual would be useful (hovering help hints moreso).

I'd still like the option of stepped octaves and notes alongside pitch bend functionality too.
Your statement that this synth is generally confusing and your other synths are not confusing, sort of makes me wonder why you are using this synth at all.
Because I like to support new developers and figured that it had good potential, great depth, was in constant development and would be a worthwhile addition to my other synths.

Complexity can be a good thing, obfuscation not so much. If you want this synth to be world class,and I see no reason why it shouldn't, the user experience is crucial.

sbmongoose
KVRer
7 posts since 26 Apr, 2018

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Sun May 12, 2019 1:23 am

New subscriber issue of Computer Music has arrived, and there's another multi-page tutorial. They're covering wavetables and FM this issue. Magazine says there are video's too, but I've not had a chance to watch them yet.

Congrats on the new soundbank. Is it just me though, or have the listed prices of these been creeping up and up?

FathomSynth
KVRian
1077 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:14 am

OK, Thanks for reporting, I'm looking forward to seeing the next article and the new video.

I've made a note to add a section to the user manual on the detune page, and you're right I had neglected to do that. That is currently one of the few pages that does not have an explanation of each dial, and I agree, it really needs it.

However, changing the names of any of the dials would need to be done very carefully. The reason is that if I change the name of a dial that has already been in the field for two years, it's more than likely I would immediately have 500 people asking me about it rather than one.

That being said, I do happen to agree with your basic point that synth dials should if possible have consistency so if any of the dials really are flat out wrong or misleading then I'm open to changing them.

I did not mean to sound like I don't value your input since user input has gotten us this far, and I'm lucky that people contribute to our thread. However if you read back a few pages in the thread you'll see that a major decision was made recently. We've been tweaking these features now for two years, and the seemingly general opinion that "Fathom would be my go to synth if only it did XYZ" has been going on now for these two years, meanwhile the CPU Efficiency issue has become a certifiable emergency which is impacting the entire marketability of the product.

So I'm going to have to stick by my guns here and be honest about the fact that there will be no more feature additions or usability changes until the CPU issue is completely resolved. Obviously crashes or other major issues which impact the audio will be fixed. But I am stopping all tweaking now until Fathom's CPU is equal to any synth on the market, and rewriting all my processor code for Intel SIMD 8 float wide registers is going to take at least two or three months.

You're welcome to continue to make feature requests here in the thread since this is the best way to record them, and I will log them in my master list, but they will be done after the CPU.

Once work on the engine is complete we can return to repainting and polishing the exterior.

shonky
KVRian
876 posts since 21 Nov, 2005

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:41 am

That's cool, it's your baby, it is a lot of work and I appreciate the CPU must come first.

Would it be possible to give a quick breakdown of some of the distortion terms as well as I'm unclear as to harmonics, ratio, phase pressure, etc. as I've never seen these as drive settings before and these are also lacking in the manual?

User avatar
RPH
KVRian
1126 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:41 am

I agree with Shonky, some parameter names should be more clear / generalised.

- Room in Reverb: Wet
- Balance in Phaser: Mix
- Ratio and Ratio in the distortion section: should be more clear which is what or related to.


Version: 2.30.0.1

I found a bug with the zero delay filter, it resets at note on to about 900Hz.
But randomly it sometimes goes back once to normal to what I set.

Vid: https://youtu.be/iR0knV3dsFk
Preset: http://rhmodules.nl/temp/sineorgan.zip

Cheers,

Rob
http://rhmodules.nl
http://syntheditforum.boards.net/
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User avatar
RPH
KVRian
1126 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Sun May 12, 2019 9:48 am

The preset also shows my previous point about the aliases.
I'm only modulating 2 (the same) parameters ( volume thru ADSR and OSC wave type ) on 7 oscillators, there are now 14 modulators on the right side. Which should be only 2. :)

..and I just got started modulating some parameters, want to add more. :clown:
http://rhmodules.nl
http://syntheditforum.boards.net/
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FathomSynth
KVRian
1077 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Mon May 13, 2019 8:24 am

I think what you want is to use the same modulation for different dials which currently it can not do.
It can use the same modulator for different dials but with the current design each dial gets its own modulation.

I agree, this would be nice, the question is how.

What I envision is simply being able to click and drag one of the existing modulations from the mod matrix list on the right over onto a second dial and the Fathom would be smart enough to know that you want two dials to share the same modulation.

I will try to get that in.

Also, yes, I will be adding a section in the manual on the distortion section as well as the detune page.
Last edited by FathomSynth on Mon May 13, 2019 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

_al_
KVRist
383 posts since 28 Oct, 2014

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Mon May 13, 2019 8:28 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:24 am

What I envision is simply being able to click and drag one of the existing modulations from the mod matrix list on the right over onto a second dial and the Fathom would be smart enough to know that you want two dials to share the same modulation.
Don't think, just do it :D

CHOOS
KVRist
245 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Mon May 13, 2019 8:57 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:24 am
I think what you want is to use the same modulation for different dials which currently it can not do.
It can use the same modulator for different dials but with the current design each dial gets its own modulation.

I agree, this would be nice, the question is how.

What I envision is simply being able to click and drag one of the existing modulations from the mod matrix list on the right over onto a second dial and the Fathom would be smart enough to know that you want two dials to share the same modulation.

I will try to get that in.
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

User avatar
RPH
KVRian
1126 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Mon May 13, 2019 10:38 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:24 am
What I envision is simply being able to click and drag one of the existing modulations from the mod matrix list on the right over onto a second dial and the Fathom would be smart enough to know that you want two dials to share the same modulation.

I will try to get that in.
Yes, indeed. That would be great.
It's not mission critical tho, for all of us the CPU/GPU improvement you're working on is the priority of course.

I have more feature requests/workflow improvement ideas, but I'll keep them to myself for now so not to distract you more. :hihi: :party:

Cheers!
http://rhmodules.nl
http://syntheditforum.boards.net/
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FathomSynth
KVRian
1077 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Mon May 13, 2019 11:14 am

RPH, OK, Thanks for your comment on the CPU, good to hear.

OK, so in regard to your bug, I loaded up your preset and recreated the issue and I'm hearing the same thing as your video.

However, I don't think there is actually a problem here.

This is a little tricky to explain so bear with me.

Also understand that fixing it would have taken far less time than writing this post, so I'm not trying to get out of changing the code here.

You have key tracking turned up to max on the zero delay filer, and the filter is set all the way to pass band high pass. Additionally, your two oscillators going into it are almost entirely a sin wave with a tiny bit of triangle wave which means they have almost no frequency content except the root partial.

With key tracking on max and the zero delay filter set all the way to high pass with a cutoff of 500 hertz means that every time there is a new note the filter is being set just over the root partial of the note which essentially eliminates all sound.

At first I thought well there's a bug in the processor setting the key tracking frequency, but after experimenting with your preset I don't thing there is. The reason I say that is if I set the zero delay high pass filter to 100 Hertz in order to let some of the oscillator low partial content through the filter, then suddenly each note becomes very clear and the frequency of the filter seems to be exactly following the frequency of the note, which it should.

Also, If I turn down key tracking on the filter the problem also disappears.

The question is whether or not the filter key tracking frequency is working correctly, and since it seems to be following the frequency of the note perfectly when set closer to zero, I would say yes it is working as it should.

The reason the filter suddenly changes to let more of the sound through when you wiggle the filter frequency knob is that when you are moving the knob the filter temporarily changes to use the actual frequency of the filter rather than key tracking frequency, which makes the filter sound wrong during the key tracking, which it is not. (Wiggling the dial and not using the key tracking frequency is probably actually the bug here).

So I don't see a bug here.

Except the dial movement issue. Personally I would rather have a filter go literal when I move the dial so I'm not even sure that is an issue.

I would change your preset so the filter frequency is lower and better tuned to the frequency content of your oscillator, or get rid of filter key tracking completely.

DIAL NAMES:

I will be changing the names of some of the dials in the next release.

On my list now is the following:

"Wet" instead of "Room" for all effects to be consistent.
"Balance" changed to "Mix" to be consistent.

"Ratio" I'm not sure about this one since it really is just a ratio between the note pitch and the algorithm frequency. Explaining each dial in the distortion page in the manual should fix this problem since none of these dials anyone is ever going to understand anyway without a manual section regardless of what we name them since they are all just links to parameters in my own secret distortion algorithm.

Please post your dial requests here, I want to get consensus from people reading the thread before we make the changes. Thanks!

shonky
KVRian
876 posts since 21 Nov, 2005

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Mon May 13, 2019 12:28 pm

FathomSynth wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:14 am
"Ratio" I'm not sure about this one since it really is just a ratio between the note pitch and the algorithm frequency. Explaining each dial in the distortion page in the manual should fix this problem since none of these dials anyone is ever going to understand anyway without a manual section regardless of what we name them since they are all just links to parameters in my own secret distortion algorithm.
Is the distortion more of a waveshaper then than a saturator/fuzz/overdrive (I guess the drive parameter probably takes care of more simple distortion tasks)?

FathomSynth
KVRian
1077 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth Version 2.31 Released

Post Mon May 13, 2019 12:54 pm

Good question.

The distortion page has a couple dials which are not related to the underlying distortion algorithm simply because there was no space anywhere else, and because historically they are related to distortion in general. These are:

Overdrive = A plain vanilla amplifier style wave shape crusher.
Phase Pressure = A simple waveform doubling with a varying phase offset.
Speed = The dial directly above it with the speed of phase variation.
Mix = Simple mix of the two distortion channels.

All the other dials are directly linked to my own harmonic distortion algorithm which is based on resonant frequency modulation of the actual waveform itself. The Harmonic dial being the intensity of the frequency variation and the Ratio dial being the ratio of the oscillator frequency to the distortion frequency. This algorithm basically recreates the fuzz component of an analog amplifier irrespective of waveform deformation and the resonant frequencies simulate the sound of a guitar being fed through a hardware amplifier with the gain turned way up.

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