Fathom Synth Official Development Thread

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
RPH
KVRian
1229 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands

Post Thu May 23, 2019 12:31 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:54 pm
..since our survival over the next six months might really depend on it..
I think this is the second time I see this pass by in this thread. Find the remark a bit strange.
- You say CM coverage has been good.
- Sale sales have been good.
- Somehow you think Fathom needs better copy protection to keep the show running, so you start about a C-R system.
- Multiple forum members disagree so you pull back on the idea for Fathom pro, not to alienate the userbase.
- I haven't seen the passworded version show up on sites which offer warez yet, so why all the energy towards changing it asap? I understand you want to make it more professional, but making the synth better ( CPU etc. ) seems a higher priority.

Am getting a bit confused.. how are things really?
- If you only have 6 months left, and sales are slowing..guess we might not be seeing Fathom Elite then? Who wants to invest if the boat is slowly sinking?
- Why is Fathom still so low priced, you say e.g. the wavetable options are very complex.. it should reflect on the pricing.

Why don't you diversify your productline?
- There are good effects in Fathom, provide them as standalone VSTFX. With the Fathom look 'n feel.
For a nice price, to basicly aid in the development of the main product: Fathom synth
- Add more Fathom versions priced accordingly, with a comparison chart on your site: elite, pro, elements, mono

And please stop changing the thread topic so often, it's the official Fathom thread .. not the Fathom new X feature / new decision thread.. in my opinion. Or am I alone in this.. :scared:

Cheers!
Last edited by RPH on Thu May 23, 2019 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://rhmodules.nl
http://syntheditforum.boards.net/
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User avatar
AmbieticA
KVRist
64 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 12:34 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:27 pm
Fathom T Shirts is not a bad idea.
I would grab one. Hat too, if made. What if it said "Can you FATHOM this!" or just "FATHOM This!". And on the other side, "Dive into FATHOM". OK, I'm just having fun playing with words here.

Fathom means:

#1: To understand something after much thought.

#2: A unit of length equal to six feet (approximately 1.8 m), chiefly used in reference to the depth of water.

From the graphics on Fathoms main page, combined with the company name, meaning #2 comes into play. But after programming Fathom, meaning #1 is absolutely relevant, so both definitions apply.

:D
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

User avatar
Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
3268 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 12:40 am

RPH wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:31 am
Why don't you diversify your productline?
This.. Seen promising devs coming up with promising vst(i)'s but slowly fading away because of only one product.

You have now a kickass modular. What would you need to cover a nice palette of different tools?

User avatar
AmbieticA
KVRist
64 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 12:43 am

RPH wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:31 am
- There are good effects in Fathom, provide them as standalone VSTFX. With the Fathom look 'n feel.
For a nice price.
Now THAT is a good idea! :) The FX in Fathom are detailed and top notch! I use Eventide's Blackhole, and so far, using synth based built in FX, only Fathom was able to emulate that to my liking! Maybe an FX Suite. The FX are beautiful all by themselves :wink:

Image
Last edited by AmbieticA on Thu May 23, 2019 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

User avatar
carrieres
KVRAF
1669 posts since 10 Apr, 2002 from Poissy, France

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 1:05 am

Looking for fathom vst with google returns no crack site on the first page of result, so you are not in danger with hacker.
On the contrary sylenth vst returns one site !
Your business model of low priced synth at 32$ plus a regular update very low priced at 5$ is not working. :-(
If i look to the priced list of u-He, his synths are priced from 69€ to 199€.
You should target a price in between with no sales !
Why Fathom is still on sales ? when the sales will end ?
As a customer i don't understand that, does it means that the sales prices is the real price ?
You are a very talented dev with a wonderful synth !
Image

Kwurqx
KVRist
464 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 7:00 am

AmbieticA wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:43 am
RPH wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:31 am
- There are good effects in Fathom, provide them as standalone VSTFX. With the Fathom look 'n feel.
For a nice price.
Now THAT is a good idea! :) The FX in Fathom are detailed and top notch! I use Eventide's Blackhole, and so far, using synth based built in FX, only Fathom was able to emulate that to my liking! Maybe an FX Suite. The FX are beautiful all by themselves :wink:

Image
That is indeed a good idea. It's Melda the other way around (where Melda Production integrates existing seperate plugins into e.g. MSoundfactory).

Maybe better to have a seperate productline as "by-products" of the main project (Fathom) then to diversify in the way of seperate (unrelated and new) projects that would all require their separate attention.

Maybe some of them free (as sort-of teaser/proof-of-quality). Comparable to e.g. TAL Chorus LX, the free chorus unit from their paid TAL UNO LX synth.

User avatar
teilo
KVRist
431 posts since 30 Mar, 2008

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 7:30 am

I love the idea of having an FX version.
macOS | Bitwig 3.x | Logic Pro X | Scarlett 6i6 v2 | DX7 w/SER-7 | Adam Audio T7V & Sub8
U-he all | Melda all | TAL synths | Komplete 12 Ult. Coll. | Arturia V 7 | Fabfilter Pro all | Rapid | countless others

User avatar
RPH
KVRian
1229 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 8:50 am

teilo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:30 am
I love the idea of having an FX version.
Yeah, i would really like that as well! My other modular VSTi's already offer that.
http://rhmodules.nl
http://syntheditforum.boards.net/
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FathomSynth
KVRian
1334 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 9:02 am

RPH, Let me assure you Fathom is not going anywhere, and I will be supporting it as long as I live, and even after by making sure the project is always in good hands.

The only point I’m trying to hint at is that if all the Fathom Mono users were to buy the product it would help immensely with development costs.

There is a whole host of things I want to do for the project in the domains of business and technology that will benefit all the users, but will not be possible until I somehow find a way to impress on people that the goal of Fathom was not to provide the perfect FREE synth, that everyone uses for free. But to create a world class synth basically like Omnisphere in quality, but with far more advanced wave form editing features for sound designers.

Fathom Mono was meant to be a gateway to the full product.

I think sometimes musicians, who are normally used to getting all their software for free, forget that for the serious projects like Fathom, software takes money to develop, and if they use the product for free then the resources for the features which the want and demand are not going to magically appear out of thin air.

Keep in mind, I’m trying to answer your question, I’m not seeking business advice on this matter like I was with the license issue. Nor am I complaining because the ability of Fathom Mono to function so well as the ultimate mono lead synth without a purchase is completely my own fault.

Fathom Mono gets well over 1000 downloads a month !!! And if half of those people purchased Fathom Pro, I would have 3 DSP engineers and a tester working for me at this very minute.

I’ve been very clear about the fact that the overwhelming use of Fathom Mono is my own responsibility, because I simply put way too many features in it.

So I was alerting people to the fact that the Wave Table feature may have to be withdrawn from Mono. The reason I delayed is because I know that taking away something which is already there will cause a revolt (the license issue was a good example, although in that case the revolt was a good thing).

That being said, I also think it was a mistake to mention this at all, since as you have point out it makes people nervous and they misread it to indicate that there is something wrong with Fathom’s longevity, which I assure you there is not. My only point was that you get what you pay for, which in my mind is always sound advice, and if people were to read in to this that I was complaining or threatening to pull the plug, which I’m not, then they are grossly misunderstanding me.

The message I was trying to deliver subtly is that people who use Fathom Mono for free, while I am grateful for their support, can hardly expect features to rival the other world class synths if they don’t think it is worth buying the full product.

Fathom Mono users, please don’t be upset with what I’m saying, since the decision was mine and no one should feel bad for using a free product that is willingly provided, I’m only pointing out that new features are not free, so just place that fact in the balance of your ultimate decision, that’s all I was trying to say.

Sometimes I run into trouble here because I’m too honest in this thread among friends and I forget that it is a very public place.

So perhaps it’s better we just drop this subject entirely, since I’ll be adverting on KVR soon and hopefully the problem will be solved.

Folks, I’m going to be a lot more careful in the future what I say in this thread. For two years it has been my private board room, and very convenient for me to develop my plans for Fathom’s ultimate Global Dominance, with such direct day to day access to the world’s most knowledge users and sound designers.

Furthermore, this has been possible as the project developed under the radar, but now that we are getting more famous I think I’ll need to be more careful, so people outside our group don’t misunderstand me.

Yes I realize Fathom is priced too low, but I can’t just suddenly raise it to $125 equal to the price of my cheapest competitor with the same features, because that will bring global fury upon me and Seaweed Audio.

The price of Fathom Pro will not go up until the CPU problem is address and that way the existing users will know that we stand behind our product and don’t raise prices until the product gives them the commensurate benefits.

Also, quite frankly many people like having a $32 synth that only lags other synths in CPU, so once the CPU technology is in place I may simply offer both a $32 and $125 synth, that way everyone is happy and we don’t have anyone upset with the company.

Honesly, let’s move on from this now, the license issue is resolved and it’s time to get back to more important feature issues such as CPU which is a much higher priority.

Keep in mind, as leader of Seaweed Audio I always have to balance business concerns with the company’s integrity to our users, so please be patient as we navigate these waters.

In terms of the name of the thread, I change it to reflect the current subject which attracts users to the discussion, otherwise they have no idea we are here talking about something. But I'll try to remember to keep the name of the thread the same in the future.

User avatar
Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
3268 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Fathom Good News No License Lock!

Post Thu May 23, 2019 9:35 am

How about creating a closed slack.com or google group for us who have been on board from the beginning?

There we can punish you privately if you plan to do something stupid :hihi: :hug:

Could be better place to toss around ideas also and argue about prices etc. ie support you the best way we know :tu:

Vertion
KVRian
632 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Fathom Synth Thread

Post Thu May 23, 2019 9:55 am

Fathom is anchored in the mind of your customer base as it is. This is a pro and con as it drives your market, but has limited your market flexibility. Your best bet is to create a new product line, this will free you from current expectations set with Fathom, as well as give a new product for your customers to invest in. It will mean more income and it will build upon itself. Your willingness to keep customers in the cycle is a big part of your success, it would be wise to continue this by keeping the conversation going on this thread. Honesty is good and makes the virtue of your products clear, user feedback. It makes the user part of the story and the product. For any new product line, study successful competitors and average the price, once the price is set, freeze it, never lower it. You can always release a new product to re-manuever and expand your line. Every new product will increase sales from your existing base, and add fame to increase the size of the base. You have an existing codebase to fork into other products, this is the fastest and easiest way. Focus on individual functions in products with more options rather than an all in one, ie a heavily modulated reverb., etc. This makes the product's function clear. Also, use a clear simple name to associate with the product. Common language, single words, that evoke imagery or emotion. If you find cracks that exist for your software it is a sign of success, a compliment and acknowledgement your products are valued. Flow with the cracks correctly, rather than fight them, just as Urs has, and it will build up your customer base even more.
Last edited by Vertion on Thu May 23, 2019 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
:) SLH :)

FathomSynth
KVRian
1334 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Thread

Post Thu May 23, 2019 9:55 am

DH, That's actually a brilliant idea!

I'll look into it.

Not sure if I ever mentioned this but it is always comforting to see the original names pop up in this thread, as long as the first generation keep showing up , Scrubbing Monkeys, RPH, TJ, Distorted Horizon, oops that's you sorry, etc, (as well as strong supporters like Ambietica) then I know we are still on track.

I think I even saw the man himself, Wagtunes, drop by recently, he was the very first poster in this thread two years go!

Vertion, My thoughts exactly for the product lines. But don't worry I will keep people informed.

Honestly, I was just in a complaining mood the last two weeks, but I'm over it. The deeper I get into the CPU redesign the more this other business stuff will get resolved and become less an issue. For the last year I was doing only Fathom demo's for the web site, and recently I went back to using some of my favorite other synths for a few songs of my own, and now I'm constantly having the experience ... "what? It can't do this? You're kidding me!, Isn't that just a basic necessity?" And then I realize, "oh right, I forgot, only Fathom can do that."

My favorite quote from any user was Scalawag's ...

"Is this the final synth to rule them all?"

User avatar
Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
3268 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Fathom Synth Thread

Post Thu May 23, 2019 10:07 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:55 am
DH, That's actually a brilliant idea!

I'll look into it.
Vertion also has a good point. Certain level of openness/transparency is a nice thing. I remember I hated it alot when Bitwig suddenly introduced, without a warning, their new pricing scheme. Then the shitstorm it brought, they suddenly stopped all the chat in kvr and only thing dom said anymore was something like "please contact to our support". I felt like I was betrayed or something :P
So I wouldn't kill this thread, even if we had our own punish room :D

FathomSynth
KVRian
1334 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Thread

Post Thu May 23, 2019 10:45 am

Good point, no I'll never stop being active in KVR since is it so critical to developing features correctly, which include this thread.

But, as global awareness of the product increases, I just have to be more aware of the company's professional image. CEO's have to be aware that anything public impacts branding and reputation. That's why I really like the idea above of a private discussion group so we can examine some of the more sensitive issues such as licensing and price points, without the casual observer thinking it is yet policy.

u-he is a good model, they are super connected to their user base, with loads of honest interchange, and also have an excellent business and professional reputation. So the two factors can clearly be present at the same time. (Did I mention I recently started using Diva, absolutely a stunning sound. It sounds like hardware, not a software instrument at all.)

OK, sorry, I really need to get back the CPU code. I'll check here again tomorrow.

Blaster
KVRist
460 posts since 22 Apr, 2004 from Ireland

Re: Fathom Synth Thread

Post Thu May 23, 2019 1:12 pm

I like it when developers are open and transparent so I just purchased the pro version. I didn't have a chance to trying the free version yet and might not even get around to use this in the coming months, but I will be looking forward to it.

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