Fathom Synth Development Thread

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
SHall1000
KVRist
285 posts since 13 May, 2015

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:32 pm

Presumably iLok has a cost which has to be stacked against developing and maintaining an in house system. Interested to know How big a dev needs to be to afford iLok.

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BlackWinny
KVRAF
3781 posts since 17 Jun, 2013 from very close to Paris, France

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:36 pm

Hello Everett !

You have all my support.

If there is a closed group to be created, you can count me in also. Even for a "beta test" group... but unfortunately I shall not be able for again several months to make real beta tests, for a reason that I show in very few words in the second line of my signature. Even when I write posts on the forum... it is very often from a bed in the hospital, as precisely at this moment. I just spent many months (from the beginning of September to the end of May) at the hospital (without any connexion) in a very strong chemiotherapy then for an autograft of bone marrow stem cells (a survey is set for at least a full year), and since June I'm at home only three to four days per week. But now I have a connexion in my new room, the constraints being now lighter. I'm unfortunately not yet recovered enough to engage something, my energy remaining very, very weak and my presence at home being not regular enough. I never hid anything in my life and if I tell sometimes about my diseases (I have two and they both are rare diseases) it has never been by whining... but to witness of the existence of these diseases (being formerly biologist), my permanent one since my birth is the narcolepsy (extremely strong) and the new one is... a myeloma, a cancer of the bone marrow. It seems that the autograft made at the beginning of the spring has been successful but it is still too early to affirm with certainty. The path remaining to do is still very long...

Back to the topic: I fully support you, Everett, and I support your project without any condition. Since the beginning as you know :) . And in a few days I'll write you by PM to see with you all the contribution that I owe you (I am absolutely and steadfastly committed to that) since last summer to update my copy which hasn't been updated for now more than 12 months for the reasons I wrote above. And if you're Ok to add me in a closed group even if I'll just be able to make suggestions, I would be very happy.
:)

My best thoughts to you all!
Last edited by BlackWinny on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1258 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:01 pm

Thanks so much for your support.

Sorry to hear that you are now engulfed in such an intense battle for your health. I'll be thinking of you. I hope your fortunes change and that soon you will be on the mend and back to full force.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3081 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:27 pm

SHall1000 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:32 pm
Presumably iLok has a cost which has to be stacked against developing and maintaining an in house system. Interested to know How big a dev needs to be to afford iLok.
There are other arguments against iLok - from the side of developers:
Urs quoting:
Thing is, there is no guarantee that any form of copy protection works. So no matter what size a company has, they need to deal with it. They can make their customers pay boutique prices for some security by adopting something that gets cracked seldom, such as iLok. But in a moment like this, this is all over and there is no concept for dealing with it.

We have a concept of dealing with piracy once it happens. People who use iLok don't.
and
Here's a secret no-one will ever officially tell anyone: The question might not be "can you afford to be cracked". The real question might be "can you afford not to". I don't know which is right, but I do know that we make good money from people who "tried" our stuff, until it cordially invited them to pay our shop a visit.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1258 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:58 pm

I don't plan on using iLok.

I would use iLok if we have to, but I don't think we have to.

It's not a big deal if you already have the USB stick for a previous purchase. But if you don't have it then the first purchase you have to wait for a couple of days for it to arrive and I remember that being very aggravating.

Also, I don't find iLok installations very easy. I think we can do better than that. I really want to try for a one button press license installation.

Everyone loves the UHE system so I will be looking at that first.

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Aloysius
KVRAF
24488 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from the Land of Soy

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:08 pm

A few squeaky wheels at kvr don't like iLok. They DO NOT represent the silent majority. PACE have a system for soft-iLok, so no hardware dongle is needed. Maybe the u-he system has merits but according to the quote above ''there is no guarantee that any form of copy protection works''. Does that mean that u-he don't have confidence in their own system? Seems to me that you'd immediately be off to a bad start there.
Hi-de-Hi!

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
2609 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:50 pm

Aloysius wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:08 pm
Seems to me that you'd immediately be off to a bad start there.
But what do you know?



Soft ilok is nice, I have nothing against it except when I want to resell something.
Melda also has a very user friendly activation.

Amram
KVRian
694 posts since 12 Jan, 2013 from Foolish Shepherd

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:58 pm

FathomSynth wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:58 pm


Everyone loves the UHE system so I will be looking at that first.
All u-he plugins cracked even for mac.
now there is just latest u-he crack ver for win.
i suggest you to look for something else than u-he .

yellowmix
KVRian
1244 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:57 am

iLok is convenient to me (and I've praised it multiple times for that) but I think it is incongruent with Fathom's (potential) userbase and goals as a low-cost high-value product. And it's really weird for Pace to make more money off protecting Fathom than Seaweed gets from selling it. iLok makes sense on software that are several hundred dollars, where its costs are less of a slice of the pie.

No copy protection is foolproof. iLok 1 was cracked, then iLok 2 was released, then that was cracked, and we're currently on iLok 3, which will be cracked eventually. Soft iLok's always been cracked. Best you can do is delay, then what? Point of u-He's protection is converting actual use pirates to customers when it is cracked. There is a timebomb in that release and when it goes off the actual-use pirate has to wait for the next release and consider a hassle-free existence by buying it. Fathom's frequent and awesome updates works well for this approach. Sometimes the solution is not entirely technological but partially social.

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carrieres
KVRAF
1651 posts since 10 Apr, 2002 from Poissy, France

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:35 am

yellowmix wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:57 am
Point of u-He's protection is converting actual use pirates to customers
This is the sole solution, and setting the price right according to your economic goal.
Asking 25€ to your customer is just too low according to your expectation !
Image

riddim83
KVRer
6 posts since 25 Oct, 2018

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 am

Aloysius wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:08 pm
... Maybe the u-he system has merits but according to the quote above ''there is no guarantee that any form of copy protection works''. Does that mean that u-he don't have confidence in their own system? Seems to me that you'd immediately be off to a bad start there.
It means Urs is informed and honest. From what I have seen, he has plenty of confidence in their copy protection system. However, proving a negative (i.e. there is no way around our security) is impossible, and if the last century or so is any indication, most if not all IT security systems have unknown exploits waiting to be discovered.

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Aloysius
KVRAF
24488 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from the Land of Soy

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:15 am

YODA has spoken
Hi-de-Hi!

biscuitdough
KVRist
42 posts since 8 Jun, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:46 am

Perhaps only slightly relevant, since the dev has already stated the copy protection won't be iLok:

I use one iLok synth, Loom 2. I found iLok to be easy to register and activate. No complaints with iLok itself. However, either the synth or the iLok licenser installed Bonjour and apparently depends on it. That was the only irritation for me - I'm on Windows and I don't see the need for a redundant, Apple-proprietary device manager on my system.

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RPH
KVRian
1211 posts since 21 Nov, 2005 from The Netherlands

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:53 am

:!: Can we move on instead of endless chat about copy protection?
Everett got the point already, and we provided suggestions and links.
It would be nice to move back to talking about the actual product again, tutorials / tips 'n tricks / wavetables and presets.

Thanks.
http://rhmodules.nl
http://syntheditforum.boards.net/
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Aloysius
KVRAF
24488 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from the Land of Soy

Re: Fathom Synth Development Thread

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:10 am

Steinberg e-licenser
Hi-de-Hi!

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