Fathom Synth Intel AVX Parallel Processing

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:41 am

OK, Sorry, More details in my next post.
Last edited by FathomSynth on Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:48 am

Technically there's no such thing as a license transfer.

However, I do have a return policy.

On very rare occasions people have asked for a return if the plugin did not run at all on their system or it ran so slowly as to make it impossible to use. In those cases I issued a refund immediately. As long as such requests don't get out of control I'm happy to do it.

Normally the procedure would be to report that shortly after making the purchase. That being said if Fathom is really too slow on your system to use effectively, then yes I agree with you that you should be entitled to a refund.

So I'm happy to give you a refund if you want it.
Last edited by FathomSynth on Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

simmo75
KVRAF
1797 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:53 am

I can except no as an answer mate. No ones trying to put you out of business, you asked me why I wanted to sell my license and I told you. Best of luck to you. We can chat via PM.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:56 am

Fair enough, sorry I over-reacted a bit.
I probably should have said first off that yes I do have a return policy.
I'll go back and reword my post.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:57 pm

Well, maybe it's time for a development update.

It's been sort of quiet here lately since I've just been coding away.

Like I said the next release will be the big one with the following :

Intel AVX Parallel Processing
Metamorphic Wave Oscillator
16 Channel Digital Delay

The Metamorphic Oscillator and 16 Channel Digital Delay are already done and working great.
All the existing oscillator code has been translated to Intel AVX vector instructions.
Now I am in the process of converting the new metamorphic oscillator code to vector instructions.

So maybe another two weeks of development and then a week of testing, shooting for early February.

I will push the Open GUI with User Skins to the following release so that does not hold things up.

ztrauq
KVRist
197 posts since 13 Dec, 2004 from USA

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:15 am

simmo75 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:30 am
FathomSynth wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:25 am
Intel AVX Parallel Processing is coming out shortly along with the Metamorphic Oscillator.
It will be the most advanced oscillator ever created in a software synth.
Shortly after that we will be doing Video Card GPU processing and the full Sampler.

So this would probably not be a good time to stop using Fathom!

Why do you want a license transfer?
It’s pretty much unusable on my mac, it brings it to its knees, so I just don’t use it anymore.
I’ve kept buying the updates in the hope this changes but as it stands, it’s still too much for my mac to handle.
I admit the Mac I've tried it on isn't exactly the highest-spec machine out there (Macbook Air), but I can confirm that when I try to do anything complex in Fathom, the machine absolutely melts (seriously, you should hear it, and the metal around the F2-F3 keys actually becomes too hot to touch). I can run seemingly similarly complex patches in Reaktor Blocks or Voltage Modular without similar issues, so I'm hoping that the new parallel processing and other optimizations will help greatly with that.

I already signed up for the beta test group, so happy to help test, including on my Mac, when it's ready. Will be interesting to see how the pricing scheme shakes out, though (as I got Fathom for a ridiculously low price in one of the KVR sales ages ago, even with some preset pack purchases I have a feeling it'll be a good chunk of change to go for the pro upgrade...)

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:29 am

I'm sad to hear that the performance on the Mac is that bad.

It can be expected the speed on the Mac would be a little slower than a Windows PC but it should not be that much of a difference.

It could also be host DAW dependent. Fathom does not (yet) use internal sample block sizes for the main block from the host. This can cause extreme slowness with some hosts such as FL Studio that do not use consistent block sizes.

Also it is critical to configure your OS for speed. Doing this on Windows more than doubles the speed. My numbers on some presets were %90 CPU before doing it and less than 25% after doing it. So it is crucial. I'm not sure if there is an equivalent procedure on the Mac but it would be important to look into this if you are running on a Mac.

This will change in the Intel AVX release as I will also be enforcing the sample block size on Fathom's side of the host interface which should eliminate this problem.

There is a chapter on CPU speed in the user guide. I'm not sure if people are reading this or not.

On my Windows PC I've never had any problem with speed. Most of my Fathom demo songs for the web site have at least 20 Fathom tracks all going at once and only rarely have I had to bounce tracks to an audio track because of CPU load.

I'll look into this problem in detail for the AVX release.

Which DAW are you using? What are your system specs? And which version of Fathom?

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:50 am

With the Fathom Vector release so close we are now discussing pricing in the private forum. If you are a license beta tester please go there and give your input so we get it right for the community at large for the release.

ztrauq
KVRist
197 posts since 13 Dec, 2004 from USA

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:55 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:29 am
I'm sad to hear that the performance on the Mac is that bad.

It can be expected the speed on the Mac would be a little slower than a Windows PC but it should not be that much of a difference.

It could also be host DAW dependent. Fathom does not (yet) use internal sample block sizes for the main block from the host. This can cause extreme slowness with some hosts such as FL Studio that do not use consistent block sizes.

Also it is critical to configure your OS for speed. Doing this on Windows more than doubles the speed. My numbers on some presets were %90 CPU before doing it and less than 25% after doing it. So it is crucial. I'm not sure if there is an equivalent procedure on the Mac but it would be important to look into this if you are running on a Mac.

This will change in the Intel AVX release as I will also be enforcing the sample block size on Fathom's side of the host interface which should eliminate this problem.

There is a chapter on CPU speed in the user guide. I'm not sure if people are reading this or not.

On my Windows PC I've never had any problem with speed. Most of my Fathom demo songs for the web site have at least 20 Fathom tracks all going at once and only rarely have I had to bounce tracks to an audio track because of CPU load.

I'll look into this problem in detail for the AVX release.

Which DAW are you using? What are your system specs? And which version of Fathom?
Hmm, using Version 2.33.0.13 in Logic Pro X. Went back and did some additional testing. The performance is definitely dependent on how complex the patch is. One track, one instance, just playing a simple monophonic sequence out of Riffer and no insert FX, some (maybe simpler) SQ80 patches hit the CPU 10-20%. Tried some other patches (pads, plucks, etc.) and CPU hits up to 50-75%, machine starts struggling but still plays notes smoothly. Bringing up for example the patch Adventures in Hyperspace with a half-dozen OSCs brings the DAW to its knees: 100%+ CPU, sound stutters and cuts out entirely as Logic starts throwing errors. Tried it in Studio One and while it doesn't completely collapse as it does in Logic, it hits 96% CPU and is constantly stuttering.

Mind you, I haven't done a ton of optimization, and there are background processes running for computer backup, file sync, etc. I might be able to optimize it a bit, but I still don't think that I'm going to be able to run the aforementioned patch in the current version without it maxing out. In comparison, I can load a complex setup in Voltage Modular (same DAW, same setup) with even more OSCs and components, and while it hits about 70% there are no errors or stutters/drop-outs. I don't have a directly comparable preset on hand but I would guess in Voltage it would run at 40-50% where it's maxing out on Fathom.

Like I said, this is running on a Macbook Air (13-inch, 2017) which works well enough for me, but is probably under-spec for a full DAW: Intel Core i7 @ 2.2Ghz, 8GB RAM, internal SSD. I can usually run about a half-dozen tracks with software instruments and a couple of insert FX apiece before I run into any issues. I think at the moment Fathom is the only plugin that's been able to bring the computer to its knees all by itself.

Again, all that being said, what with the whole Catalina fiasco I've been working on a plan to move at least some of my DAW work over to what had been exclusively a gaming laptop, which is taking some effort to get set up but packs a lot more power (I would imagine that Fathom would perform much better there, as it's already speed-optimized for gaming, but I haven't tested it on there yet).

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Sound Bank "Masters of Ambience"

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:30 am

:arrow: Mac OSX CPU

Fathom is fully dynamic for number of units, so there is no way to avoid hitting the CPU limit. Other synths can avoid this internally by limiting the number of oscillators, filters and effects. In Fathom you have to turn down the number of detune voices and reduce ADSR release times if there are a lot of oscillators in the preset. I would strongly recommend reading the CPU portion of the manual since it says how to avoid this problem completely. Never the less, I'll take a very close look at Mac OSX for the next release since it sounds like there is a problem. I have a feeling the problem will be less when I move to internal sample block sizes in the next release. Variable block size in some hosts kills the CPU.

:arrow: VECTOR PRICING

After a couple weeks of discussion, the private forum has reached a unanimous consensus on details regarding the Fathom Vector release, so we can announce this now. A brief recap is included at the end.

Fathom Mono will stay as is except I will be adding back in the Wave Draw oscillator.

Fathom Vector will be the new advanced flagship product at $125.

Fathom Vector (Fathom Extreme) will include the new Intel AVX Parallel Processing and all the new features, including the new Metamorphic Oscillator (already complete) which is the most advanced oscillator ever created in a software synthesizer.

It will also include the 16 Channel Free Routing Digital Delay (also complete), and later in 2020 the Open GUI with User Skins, the Advanced Sampler and the independent Fathom FX VST.

Fathom Vector will only be available under the new license system, not under the unzip code.

Existing users who purchased Fathom before the AVX release will have the option to upgrade to the Fathom Vector License and apply all their purchases without any loss including their original purchase and all upgrades toward Vector.

Existing users will also have the option of staying at Fathom Pro + AVX with a special build which includes only Pro plus the AVX Parallel Processing minus the advanced 2020 features. It will, however, require a real license.

This will not be available to new users buying Fathom after the AVX release date, who will have to buy Vector to get it. The Pro + AVX offer exists only to respect existing users who have supported us for so long under the expectation that they might be getting AVX at some point.

There was a strong reaction here on KVR before when I included any details regarding business matters, so anyone who wants to know the full reason behind the $125 price point will have to email me directly.

Fathom Pro without AVX will become the new impulse buy entry product and the price will be lowered to somewhere around $35 on the web site. It will be $35 here on KVR up until the AVX release to give people a chance to jump in.

I’ll keep my original promise for now not to place the existing Fathom Pro under license, so it will continue under the unzip code. However, this could change in the future if there is an overwhelmingly positive reaction to the one button press license installer.

The new license system will be thoroughly tested in our beta group before release to absolutely ensure that it is easy, painless, and a one button press install.

Vector still requires a lot of testing so the release will probably be March 1.

Recap:

Fathom Mono: Same + Wave Draw.
Fathom Pro: No AVX, Lower Price.
Fathom Pro + AVX: Existing users only, License only.
Fathom Vector: $125 All features, License only.

perpetual3
KVRian
1183 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Fathom Vector Release Plan

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:05 am

I’m sorry, it’s a bit confusing.

I bought a license and an upgrade. How does that apply to vector?

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Vector Release Plan

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:34 am

Sorry, License above means the new license system. Fathom on KVR is not sold with a functional license, it only uses an unzip code for updates. The KVR license gives you the ability to download updates after you make the purchase from KVR but those updates themselves do not have license software protecting them outside of KVR. The KVR "license" not a software protection system, it's just a way to get free updates from the KVR's server.

Just to be clear Fathom Vector is a completely new product from Fathom Pro and it will have radically new features, not just advancements of the existing features. Fathom Pro will continue to get bug fixes and improvements to existing features. If that is all you want then you don't have to do anything.

If you already purchased Fathom Pro here on KVR you have three options:

1. Just keep using it and get free upgrades to it.
2. Transfer your total purchase and upgrades to Fathom Vector and pay the difference to $125.
3. Use the Fathom Pro + AVX build for free if you got it before the AVX release.

For (1) you do not need to get Seaweed Audio functional license protection.
For (2) and (3) you will need to get Seaweed Audio functional license protection.

Specific instructions for (2) and (3) will be released when AVX comes.

Simple.

Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
4158 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Re: Fathom Vector Release Plan

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:00 am

So feature wise there is no advantage to have both the Fathom Pro + AVX and the Fathom Vector?

FathomSynth
KVRian
1326 posts since 25 Mar, 2017

Re: Fathom Vector Release Plan

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:10 am

No, sorry, that is not correct, there is a huge difference.

Fathom Pro + AVX is only Fathom Pro with Intel AVX Parallel Processing, nothing else. It only includes the speed increase. It does not include any of the new advanced 2020 features such as the new Metamorphic Oscillator and others listed below.

Fathom Vector will include the following features which Pro+AVX will not:

Metamorphic Oscillator. (Already done)
16 Channel Free Routing Digital Delay. (Already done)
Independent Fathom FX.
Open GUI for User Skins.
Sampler.
Video Card GPU Processing.

Biscotto
KVRist
366 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Re: Fathom Vector Release Plan

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:41 am

I’m ok with the whole plan :love:
One question regarding my old problem I experienced playing my project on two platforms, W10 and Mac, where the Fathom instance was not recognized because of the platform switch.
Is that being addressed?
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