KVR Audio

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:57 am

Tone2 updates Gladiator to 2.6;

Gladiator 2.6 is 100% downward compatible with the previous version. All existing song projects and patches can be loaded without any further steps necessary. They will benefit from the enhanced sound quality. The update is free for all Gladiator2 users.

- Drastically enhanced sound quality, especially if you run the plugin in 44khz
- More clean and detailed overall sound
- Enhanced sound of the filters: More linear frequency response for high cutoffs
- Enhanced sound of the effects section: Higher precesion interpolation
- Enhanced sound of the distortion: Added oversampling for more crisp sound
- Enhanced sound of the osciallors: Higher precesion interpolation
- Added a high-end resampling algorithm
- More linear frequency response, especially above 10 kHz
- More tight timing
- Enhanced stability
- More inituitive parameter names for automation
- More beautiful ligths for the buttons
- Fixed a possible pop sound on opening the plugin
- More robustness
- Less aggressive psychoacoustic processing
- Workaround for a host bug in Orion 8.6
- In the Mac version patches can now be renamed from within the plugin (if the host supports it)
- Several other minor fixes

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http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=2476.0

Vertion · Post by **Vertion** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:47 am

exmatproton, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but I just had to come back and say that I am honestly proud of Tone2 all over again

, I really have to consider upgrading to Rayblaster 2 after all. Truly. Ta

Tone2isGreatAgain.jpg

loungepanda · Post by **loungepanda** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:58 am

More tight timing

What does this mean exactly?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:14 pm

Vertion wrote:exmatproton, I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but I just had to come back and say that I am honestly proud of Tone2 all over again

Did i miss something?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:30 pm

Really curious: How can it be 100% downwards compatible with a long list of obviously drastic changes in sound? Do they use some sort of backwards compatibility mode, or do they simply take into account that existing projects will sound different?

(I ask because we're permanently facing similar issues, so it would be great to hear what other companies do and what their users think about it)

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:37 pm

Urs wrote:and what their users think about it)

I own their Saurus, the first version. When I was demoing v. 2 it sounded noticeably better to my ears when I compared some of the factory presets and the good thing was that they both are able to run alongside. I just think this is the way to go, if you are going to change the sound in the new version of a synth just make it a separate dll with the new name.

Didn't upgrade Saurus tho (because I have Diva).

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:38 pm

- More beautiful ligths for the buttons

anyone have a screenshot

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:39 pm

Urs wrote:Really curious: How can it be 100% downwards compatible with a long list of obviously drastic changes in sound? Do they use some sort of backwards compatibility mode, or do they simply take into account that existing projects will sound different?

(I ask because we're permanently facing similar issues, so it would be great to hear what other companies do and what their users think about it)

I guess it only means that the patches are compatible. In Electra2, which saw some sound changes compared to ElectraX, the sounds just sounded a bit different.

Frankly, i don't think i would even bother much with downwards compatibility, if i were a dev, and developed a version 2 or 3 of my synth. If the sound engine has been improved, or rewritten, i guess you just can't provide backwards compatibility, unless you give the option to switch back to the sound engine of the former synth. Why not just give it a new plugin ID, keep on selling the older version, and make it 2 different synths? Synapse did so with Dune. I think it's fine.

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:56 pm

chk071 wrote:In Electra2, which saw some sound changes compared to ElectraX, the sounds just sounded a bit different.

In other words if your sounds were based on certain sweetspots, the new 'drastically enhanced sound quality' probably ruined everything. Not good if you spent a lot of time doing delicate fine-tweaking until the sounds were just right...

On the other hand im all for making improvements when necessary, especially when the plugin has fundamental flaws that ought to be fixed no matter what. (XILS-lab and XILS3 spring to mind.) They are aware that the waveshaping isnt working like it does on the real VCS3, yet they consider not breaking existing presets to be more important than making those VCOs behave like on the real synth. And thats obviously not good either, especially when a plugin is supposed to be an emulation of something.

Best middle-road solution in my opinion: When in doubt, release a new version with a new VST ID so that old and new can coexist. Existing presets will continue to sound unaltered in the old version while the new version has all the error corrections, bugfixes, enhancements, whatever. That way everyone should be happy.

exmatproton · Post by **exmatproton** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:08 pm

ENV1 wrote:
chk071 wrote:In Electra2, which saw some sound changes compared to ElectraX, the sounds just sounded a bit different.
In other words if your sounds were based on certain sweetspots, the new 'drastically enhanced sound quality' probably ruined everything. Not good if you spent a lot of time doing delicate fine-tweaking until the sounds were just right...

On the other hand im all for making improvements when necessary, especially when the plugin has fundamental flaws that ought to be fixed no matter what. (XILS-lab and XILS3 spring to mind.) They are aware that the waveshaping isnt working like it does on the real VCS3, yet they consider not breaking existing presets to be more important than making those VCOs behave like on the real synth. And thats obviously not good either, especially when a plugin is supposed to be an emulation of something.

Best middle-road solution in my opinion: When in doubt, release a new version with a new VST ID so that old and new can coexist. Existing presets will continue to sound unaltered in the old version while the new version has all the error corrections, bugfixes, enhancements, whatever. That way everyone should be happy.

+1

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:15 pm

Thanks guys! So how is it done with Gladiator 2.6? I can't imagine a .x upgrade having a new VST ID. Hence my question...

As for that... the biggest point that speaks against doing that for me as a developer is that I'd either have a lot of overhead keeping the old version alive, or my customers would have to live with the idea that the old version will at some point be dead. I think a better way would be a compatibility mode, unless the new version / rewrite has a considerably different feature set.

Anyhow, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. It's good to see that Gladiator got some TLC.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:22 pm

Maybe I'm a little deaf, but I never noticed that the changes were so drastic as that the patches sounded really different. This was true for Saurus, as true for Electra, and will probably be true for Gladiator.

Of coruse, I could run the same patches through a a spectrometer and analyser to check how much different they are, but I think it's too much trouble for too little. If the sound is reasonably similar alone, in a real life mixer it will be definitelly passable.

Anyway, kudos to Tone 2 for coming with this update. Sometimes they act as we are used to with other devlopers, sometimes (Saurus, Rayblaster) they come up with paid updates, for no clear reason.

Fortunately, this time it will be the former.

Vertion · Post by **Vertion** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:17 pm

Urs,
Possible Ideas as a solution:
- Keep all the old releases available on the site.
- Keep all the old releases available inside the plugin (switch between version functionalities). Ie. delegate between versions of subroutines / classes based on the switch. Or have specific functions switch between different versions.. etc etc.
- Too bad, send customer a kind paper memo embossed 'Sorry.', a box of nose wipes and bon-bons, with a fresh Bluray copy of Pretty Woman courtesy of U-he Support Dept.
- Start a new version if added improvements push current product in it's own direction, and is practically a whole new product since the last version. (put a new number next to the product name, or better yet, use a flavor like... Diva Butterscotch)..
- Start a completely new product if added improvements move product in a completely different/new direction than the prior version(s), and is practically a whole new product since the last version. Put current skin in photoshop, flip skin horizontally and shift hue 30 degrees.. name new product after a DnD character or a Rick Astley song. Instant profit.

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:23 pm

This is great! Finally Gladiator gets some love.

Still on of my favourite synths.

fluffy_little_something · Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:42 pm

I like the way Waves did it in Element, both versions are in one plugin and one can switch back and forth between the two. The sound has really changed a lot, way more than I remember for instance with the Saurus update, and that was even a new main version, not just .x.

With Tone2 upgrades are cash cows in my view

Is this update free?

Tone2 Gladiator 2.6 update