FALCON or HALION 6 ?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17080 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:30 am

E-MU sounds like E-MU. Falcon sounds like Falcon. They aren't similar at all, IMHO.

You should watch through all of Dan Worrall's Falcon tutorials, in there you can get an idea of the sound quality, if that worries you. I think it shouldn't worry you, it sounds great, really.

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fmr
KVRAF
7835 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:02 am

Wavegem wrote:What about the fact that uvi gives you 3 licenses and Steinberg only gives you one. Halion 6 comes with a 25+ gig library and Falcons factory content is 600 mb.
UVI gives you a 100 $/€ voucher that allows you to buy more content. Which content will be your choice.

That said, I can't choose between one or the other. Both have their strenghts, and I think they even complement each other nicely. For example, I think that Falcon does a better job as a pure synth, while HALion is better as a wavetable synth. HALion is also slightly better in granular, although both perform very well in this aspect - but different.
Last edited by fmr on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rasmusklump
KVRian
803 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Germany

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:31 am

I have both and while I use Falcon daily in every project, I load Halion 6 maybe once a month...

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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5580 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:20 am

Halion is the better "Sample Editor" for mapping, wave editing and stuff like that. It also actually samples too now.

I like Halions wavetable more than Falcons. It's a lot deeper.

After that it's all in the synth engines and effects. Which aren't about the "sampler aspect".

I think Falcon is easier to program from a sound design perspective. And, I agree the built in FX are tops. But, when I'm going to sample my modular or something, I use Halion and Wavelab. I don't even consider Falcon.
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apeshake
KVRer
6 posts since 8 Feb, 2010

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:33 am

Thanks for the advice I went for Falcon and I'm not dissapointed - sounds amazing and the interface makes more sense to me than halion does. I've even dipped my toe in the lua scripting to make a simple note trigger delay (I was really surprised there isn't a native control for that - I couldn't find one, or any mention of one in the manual). I might get more into the scripting side down the line but for the most part the standard options seem to have everything I can think of covered.

I agree if I was going to be making multisampled instruments Halion would have made things a bit easier but I'm more interested in creative sampling and sound design and falcon beats halion in that regard with the better modulation options and better effects.
Also very impressed with the granular engine - I don't know why but I didn't get along with Halions granular engine at all while falcons sounds great with very little effort

Brilliant hybrid sampler/synth well worth the money - now I just can't decide which sound pack to get with my voucher!

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6175 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:27 am

apeshake wrote: Brilliant hybrid sampler/synth well worth the money - now I just can't decide which sound pack to get with my voucher!
If you ask me Atmospherics is the best by far.
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goldenanalog
KVRAF
1588 posts since 7 Dec, 2005 from somewhere between analog and digital

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:47 pm

Ok! This has been a resourceful thread - I'd like to pose the question slightly differently:

I just bought Halion 6 as part of a package, it's up to 6.1 (Falcon is @ 1.4), and comes with a fair-sized chunk of material to play with -

Is there a truly compelling reason or reasons for buying both, or would there be too much redundancy between both to justify the additional purchase?

The very fascinating thing about Halion at this late stage of it's development cycle is that it's geared to *author* content that can be used as stand-alone products in conjunction with a free player - Falcon from what I've read is fantastic; but you need to buy (or own) additional uvi content to really make Falcon sing?

goldenanalog
KVRAF
1588 posts since 7 Dec, 2005 from somewhere between analog and digital

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:48 pm

To completely simplify the question: Falcon *and* Halion 6? Or is having either enough - no need to buy the other?

starflakeprj
KVRian
836 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:48 pm

Falcon is more complete, there's hardly nothing HALion has that Falcon doesn't have. I also think Falcon has a lot better effect section, and Falcon has FM synthesis, which HALion lacks, as well as far more expansions to choose from.

HALion on the other hand has a much larger factory library. It has, imo, superior wavetable and granular synthesis. And also the possibility to sample sounds, which Falcon can't (which is the only thing I think Falcon can't do that HALion can.

I have them both, and I think Falcon is far more intuitive to use, much easier to handle without peaking in the manual or watching tutorial videos. This of course when trying to create sounds from scratch.

My "short" answer though, is that if you already own HALion, I don't think there are any reasons purchasing Falcon. Unless you don't want any or some of the great expansions that are available for Falcon, or can't live without FM synthesis.

But I guess I didn't make it much easier for you now :)
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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
14236 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:55 pm

And Falcon also has the physical modelling oscillator (pluck synth).

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4337 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:14 am

goldenanalog wrote:To completely simplify the question: Falcon *and* Halion 6? Or is having either enough - no need to buy the other?
Halion's factory library is way more extensive than Falcon's. I doubt you need both, particularly if you are going to use it for the library more than custom sound design. Even then, Halion now has scripting which was one advantage of Falcon before H6 arrived.

I think Falcon is easier to navigate, though none of the power samplers (Kontakt included) are intuitive. I just find there's a lot of "why Steinberg, why is that function there?" with Halion's design that probably has a lot to with having made it to version 6 with the need to preserve backward compatibility.

How either handles MPE is also a consideration. Halion assumes you will be using Cubase's conversion to VST note expression. Mileage varies in other DAWs. Falcon is a bit cleaner in how it handles MPE. If you're not using an MPE controller then problem solved.

gentleclockdivider
KVRian
1183 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:54 am

PLayed with both , don't own any of them
I got the impression that Halions filters (ported from retrologue ?) are superior ..more mojo ..where as falcon's filters lack that oomph/drive ..iow they sound more surgical .
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apeshake
KVRer
6 posts since 8 Feb, 2010

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:25 am

I still love falcon and i'm pleased I went with it, but sample playback is not the main focus of the instrument and sometimes that is distracting. Despite having most if not all the same options as halion for sample playback you really feel like you're using a sampling synthesizer and I don't remember feeling that way about halion

I wish (but don't expect) uvi would add sampling capabilities to falcon

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
6175 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:21 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
goldenanalog wrote:To completely simplify the question: Falcon *and* Halion 6? Or is having either enough - no need to buy the other?
Halion's factory library is way more extensive than Falcon's. I doubt you need both, particularly if you are going to use it for the library more than custom sound design. Even then, Halion now has scripting which was one advantage of Falcon before H6 arrived.

I think Falcon is easier to navigate, though none of the power samplers (Kontakt included) are intuitive. I just find there's a lot of "why Steinberg, why is that function there?" with Halion's design that probably has a lot to with having made it to version 6 with the need to preserve backward compatibility.

How either handles MPE is also a consideration. Halion assumes you will be using Cubase's conversion to VST note expression. Mileage varies in other DAWs. Falcon is a bit cleaner in how it handles MPE. If you're not using an MPE controller then problem solved.
It’s a little inaccurate to say that falcon handles mpe better since Halion doesn’t handle mpe at all. Like you said it can work with Cubase note expression where you can convert mpe messages to note expression but there is no mpe with Halion in any other daw. There isn’t even polyphonic aftertouch.

Falcons mpe is pretty well implemented, except for the fact that you cant use mpe expressions in mono mode.
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4337 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: FALCON or HALION 6 ?

Post Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:38 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:It’s a little inaccurate to say that falcon handles mpe better since Halion doesn’t handle mpe at all. Like you said it can work with Cubase note expression where you can convert mpe messages to note expression but there is no mpe with Halion in any other daw. There isn’t even polyphonic aftertouch.
The workaround for Halion is much the same as with Kontakt or Omnisphere. Although it's a kludge, that is not the same as "no MPE at all".
Last edited by Gamma-UT on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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