Getting Hive?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19326 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Wed May 31, 2017 7:03 am

OK now I gotta see that commercial. Link? :D

bibz1st
KVRAF
1696 posts since 29 Mar, 2013

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Wed May 31, 2017 7:07 am

Beauty is only skin deep,
Ugliness, however, goes right the way through

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3702 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Wed May 31, 2017 7:09 am

Well, this was the one I was thinking of from when I was younger. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk71h2CQ_xM

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Urs
u-he
24320 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Wed May 31, 2017 8:45 pm

Dasheesh wrote:
Urs wrote:
(that said, Spire has a lot of targets, much more comprehensive than Sylenth fwiw - does the Envelope self mod trick work?)

I think I was the one to bring that up on this forum first. I couldn't wrap my head around what was going on there. If you assign env. 1 to env. 1 it gets real weird. How can an envelope over drive itself? Isn't it already at 100%?
Why "over drive"? - You wouldn't modulate the envelope's amplitude by itself. You'd modulate the rate. This way one can shape the slopes to taste, from very snappy to very punchy. For example, during the attack phase you can make attack slower and slower. Or faster and faster, while the envelope rises.

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12922 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:21 am

What's the point of that? Modulating an envelope with an envelope doesn't sound very intuitive to me. I prefer the usual slope selectors and velocity -> envelope controls (ideally not via the matrix, but dedicated knobs), that is already much more than most hardware synths offer.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19326 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:35 am

The point of that is that you can modulate the slope dynamically, during envelope's execution. Just like, for example, on a Virus. It's perfectly intuitive as it's a recursion.

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12922 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:44 am

So, basically you are simply replacing each phase such as the attack by a little sub-envelope instead of a mathematical function 8)

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12922 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:51 am

I think that is excessive.

I would prefer an envelope display instead, where one can overlap several envelopes -- especially filter and amp -- and zoom in so that one can see for instance the synth brass bump, or link attack phases with an offset, or see the absolute duration of envelopes relative to each other.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3702 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:15 am

Delete.
Last edited by Dasheesh on Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3702 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:19 am

If you assign envelope one amount to envelope one amount, what's going on?

Because it's some kind of mind blowing physics feedback loop that is hard for me to wrap my head around.

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beely
KVRAF
1707 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:46 am

Dasheesh wrote:If you assign envelope one amount to envelope one amount, what's going on?
Just a little extra maths to work out the actual envelope values while the voice is calculated.
Last edited by beely on Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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nineofkings
KVRAF
1774 posts since 9 Apr, 2011

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:58 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:So, basically you are simply replacing each phase such as the attack by a little sub-envelope instead of a mathematical function 8)
Not exactly. You're multiplying each phase such as the attack by itself to change the shape.

For a visual example, go on wolfram alpha or use a graphing calculator or graphing app and graph y=x. That upward line represents the envelope attack. Now compare that to y=x^2. That curve is how the shape changes when you multiply the envelope by itself. You can do the same with y=(-x) and y=(-x)^2 to see the effect on the decay and release stages. Those are almost exactly the calculations the synth itself is presumably doing to generate the envelope shapes.

By doing that in the mod matrix it's basically a mathematical way to get at the curve shape. Do I want the envelope curves to be convex or concave/bend inwards or outwards?

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3702 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:02 am

nineofkings wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:So, basically you are simply replacing each phase such as the attack by a little sub-envelope instead of a mathematical function 8)
Not exactly. You're multiplying each phase such as the attack by itself to change the shape.

For a visual example, go on wolfram alpha or use a graphing calculator or graphing app and graph y=x. That upward line represents the envelope attack. Now compare that to y=x^2. That curve is how the shape changes when you multiply the envelope by itself. You can do the same with y=(-x) and y=(-x)^2 to see the effect on the decay and release stages. Those are almost exactly the calculations the synth itself is presumably doing to generate the envelope shapes.
well, I think it's a little more complicated then that because you have the shape of the entire envelope shaping one stage of the envelope, not shaping the entire envelope.... I'm still not satisfied with modulating envelope amount buy envelope amount of the same envelope.... I'm getting freaked out trying to visualize that. It's like a bad experience.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3702 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:07 am

These were my two complaints about Spire, and they have been for more then a year now. You've seen my complaints before I'm sure.

1: The envelopes descend into chaos and hard to control.

2: something about the cpu "optimization" is holding it back when you use an Oscillator as modulator. It becomes a filthy mess.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3702 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Getting Hive?

Post Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:09 am

oh yeah, and the shading on the GUI is distracting and too dark.

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