Physical modelling in 2017

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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pdxindy
KVRAF
14275 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:41 am

mcnoone wrote:Sculpture is the best physical modeling synth at this time.
I know it, because I am the greatest authority on this and every subject.
Thank you.

Seriously though...it's really good.
For the highest quality string sound, Kaivo is better... but obviously not nearly as flexible and it does not have the fantastic morphing of Sculpture.

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mcnoone
KVRAF
6081 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:34 am

pdxindy wrote:
For the highest quality string sound, Kaivo is better... but obviously not nearly as flexible and it does not have the fantastic morphing of Sculpture.
I'll have to check that out. I'll check the demo I just dl'ed out after work today.
I have the AAS String studio v2 and it's excellent.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14275 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:57 am

mcnoone wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
For the highest quality string sound, Kaivo is better... but obviously not nearly as flexible and it does not have the fantastic morphing of Sculpture.
I'll have to check that out. I'll check the demo I just dl'ed out after work today.
I have the AAS String studio v2 and it's excellent.
String Studio is one of my favorites... It is also quite flexible

There is something beautifully natural sounding about Kaivo. It is a pleasure to play. Somehow little note bends sound more 'right'. I think they are using a more sophisticated modeling (it shows in the CPU use).

You can make various pad type sounds using the granulator, but I have so far not found that particularly compelling... but the string sounds and some percussive sounds are superb.

electro
KVRAF
4377 posts since 6 May, 2002

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:40 pm

Arturia just did a great job modeling Hohner Clavinet.
Intel Core2 Quad CPU + 4 GIG RAM

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8715 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:32 pm

electro wrote:Arturia just did a great job modeling Hohner Clavinet.
All of the piano stuff is pretty cool if we stopped being snobby about perfection, I just wish theyd thrown In a few non piano parameters to tweak so we could take it further away from the boring piano sound.
I personally dislike the sound of piano generally, real or otherwise

benjamind
KVRian
1027 posts since 4 Aug, 2004 from Ain't tellin' ya...

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:25 pm

Sounds good enough for a clavinet, but I think most of the e-piano sounds need a little tweaking. I know the clav is different to the e-pianos, but they could all do with some small improvements - even if it is at the cost of more CPU resources.

On the other hand, there really is no such thing as a 100% perfectly physically modeled VI...but we are getting so tantalizingly close.
Little Black Dog - 2008-Present

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plexuss
KVRAF
2383 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:51 pm

Looks promising. Oh, I see this was posted earlier. Sorry...

"Derailer is a physical modelling system with two basic elements. One is a metal bar that you can strike or bow. The other is a nonlinear mass/spring connection. This allows you to join two bars together so that vibrations from one create sympathetic resonance in the other. By connecting multiple bars you can create new instruments that have their own unique sound.

"There are 37 strike bars, 5 resonators, and up to 81 connections to play with. The adjustable physical parameters and nonlinearity of the connections produce a wide range of tonal variation that reacts to striking velocity or bowing pressure. Derailer uses finite-difference time-domain numerical modelling."

https://physicalaudio.co.uk/PA3.html

Stefano Lucato
KVRer
10 posts since 26 Oct, 2008 from Italy

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:14 pm

Krakatau wrote:So all the instruments created with the SWAM engine are pure physical models rather than an hybrid technology, right ?
AudioModeling Technologies (Sample / Physical Modeling)

SWT - Synchronous Waves Triggering:
- Saxophones on Kontakt (SaxBrothers)

SWAM - Synchronous Waves Acoustic Modeling
- SWAM v1: Reeds
- SWAM v2: Flutes
- SWAM S: Bowed Strings

The technology used in our instruments is indeed a combination of different techniques.
I started in 2007 with a technology called SWT - Synchronous Waves Triggering (a MultiVector Samples ReSynthesis) which was my first attempt to model samples in realtime. These instruments (SaxBrothers) were developed on Native Instrument Kontakt platform. Kontakt (that is a very good platform and basically an advanced sampler perfect for sample libraries) is non the best tool for this Synthesis technique, so I decided to make a proprietary engine. In 2009 I met Emanuele Parravicini and together begun the development of the SWAM engine.
SWAM, Synchronous Waves Acoustic Modeling (or now we prefer Synchronous Waves Audio Modeling) adds concepts of Physical Modeling to the MultiVector Sample technique. We made different versions of the engine, each one more suitable for a specific family of instruments.
Each version has different balance between Sample and Physical Modeling.
Reeds, that use engine version 1, is basically a Multivector Sample engine with some Physical Modeled Resonance elements and Behavioral modeling techniques.
Flutes use version 2 with a bigger component of physical modeling tecnique than sampling and in our opinion represent the best example of mixing between both techniques because we have sampled the lower dynamics on the first octave only and all other notes and dynamics are obtained by modeling this limited sampled material, through the obtainment of Overtones.
Lastly, Bowed Strings (our recent product) are made mainly with Physical Modeling approach. We decided to 100% model Bowed Strings by WaveGuide Synthesis (a Physical Modeling method conceived by Prof. Julius O.Smith) because it was very difficult obtain the BowPressure parameter (Very important expression control) with others SWAM techniques.

Stefano Lucato
CEO
Audio Modeling

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Krakatau
KVRAF
5456 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:45 pm

Stefano Lucato wrote: The technology used in our instruments is indeed a combination of different techniques.
I started in 2007 with a technology called SWT - Synchronous Waves Triggering (a MultiVector Samples ReSynthesis) which was my first attempt to model samples in realtime. These instruments (SaxBrothers) were developed on Native Instrument Kontakt platform. Kontakt (that is a very good platform and basically an advanced sampler perfect for sample libraries) is non the best tool for this Synthesis technique, so I decided to make a proprietary engine. In 2009 I met Emanuele Parravicini and together begun the development of the SWAM engine.
SWAM, Synchronous Waves Acoustic Modeling (or now we prefer Synchronous Waves Audio Modeling) adds concepts of Physical Modeling to the MultiVector Sample technique. We made different versions of the engine, each one more suitable for a specific family of instruments.
Each version has different balance between Sample and Physical Modeling.
Reeds, that use engine version 1, is basically a Multivector Sample engine with some Physical Modeled Resonance elements and Behavioral modeling techniques.
Flutes use version 2 with a bigger component of physical modeling tecnique than sampling and in our opinion represent the best example of mixing between both techniques because we have sampled the lower dynamics on the first octave only and all other notes and dynamics are obtained by modeling this limited sampled material, through the obtainment of Overtones.
Lastly, Bowed Strings (our recent product) are made mainly with Physical Modeling approach. We decided to 100% model Bowed Strings by WaveGuide Synthesis (a Physical Modeling method conceived by Prof. Julius O.Smith) because it was very difficult obtain the BowPressure parameter (Very important expression control) with others SWAM techniques.
Thanks a lot for the enlightment, much appreciated !

...can you perhaps, (without betraying some proprietary top secrets 8) ) , explain this concept of multivector sample technique ?

:)

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30075 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:12 am

I'm finding Chromaphone to be much more capable than first appears, got a really lovely woody upright bass with it last night, plus a sort of koto/banjo ish sound with a scraped release. It's far more than just a percussion synth.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14275 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:47 am

aMUSEd wrote:I'm finding Chromaphone to be much more capable than first appears, got a really lovely woody upright bass with it last night, plus a sort of koto/banjo ish sound with a scraped release. It's far more than just a percussion synth.
Chromaphone is lovely sounding and pretty flexible. I do wish it had more modulation options... but that's the I want to push things to the limits part of me :)

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17194 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:51 am

Krakatau wrote:...can you perhaps, (without betraying some proprietary top secrets 8) ) , explain this concept of multivector sample technique ?
It's (from my limited understanding) basically phase-aligned samples that can be crossfaded in multiple dimensions (not just from A to B, but from somewhere between A and B you can then crossfade to C, and then all that to D, or something like that).

Howard
KVRAF
3653 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:03 am

I'm still enamoured with Zebra2's comb filter. And that's how old?

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Krakatau
KVRAF
5456 posts since 25 May, 2002 from Bobo-dioulasso\BF__Geneva/CH

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:27 am

Howard wrote:I'm still enamoured with Zebra2's comb filter. And that's how old?
Karpus-Strong models, isn't it ?

gentleclockdivider
KVRian
1246 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Physical modelling in 2017

Post Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:07 am

Stefano Lucato wrote:is basically a Multivector Sample engine with some Physical Modeled Resonance elements and Behavioral modeling techniques.
Roland also coins the term ' behavioral modelling technology ' for their supernatural acoustic engine , integra range etc.
All I can say is that in some supernatural acoustic instruments , the BMT it's just a fancy word for advanced layering of samples and midi triggering of said sample layers .


Not saying you're lying , I am just cautious when this kindof terminology is used .
edit .. waveguide synthesis :tu:
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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