Favorite Synth to Program

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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foosnark
KVRAF
4440 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:25 am

EnGee wrote:
toonertik wrote: CM version is mono only and no unison...
CM have done a good job with their synth and fx collection>> saved me a lot of money as I have only needed to buy a few extra things that I consider essential ...
I have been reading the thread>> synths or VSTs I regret buying... I have nothing to contribute in that thread... :lol:
Yes, I noticed that when I spotted the polyphony/unison section. It is still a very good mono synth for experimental sequences IMO. It reminds me actually of how some musicians/synthesists imagined the future (spcace/sci-fi) in the 70's. They used such sounds and sequences. I think I'm fine with the limitations :)
I used the Beats version of Aalto for a few months before going ahead and getting the full version. I like being able to assign the rotating voice number as a modulation source, but wish there were two exponential pitch inputs on the oscillator and the delay so detuning would be easier. Still, it's fantastic with or without the magazineware limitation :tu:

EnGee
KVRAF
5023 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:46 am

foosnark wrote: I used the Beats version of Aalto for a few months before going ahead and getting the full version. I like being able to assign the rotating voice number as a modulation source, but wish there were two exponential pitch inputs on the oscillator and the delay so detuning would be easier. Still, it's fantastic with or without the magazineware limitation :tu:
I think the only limitation is the polyphony/unison, because I'm comparing the mono version with the manual and I can't see another difference.

It has one 'complex' oscillator which uses FM (modulator and carrier), but it is a very flexible in modulation, as you can modulate the pitch/shape/timbre/ratio ..etc. Interesting! The CM version has a low cpu usage as well :)
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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12651 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:37 am

pdxindy wrote:Sylenth does not have unison... it only has voice stacking in the Osc's... that is not real unison.

Also, Legend actually sounds like an analog synth. Sylenth sounds nothing like real analog and is missing features one often has with an analog synth such as ring mod, cross modulation, filter FM and such. The sorts of features that give a wide tonal character. The main feature of sylenth when it came out, the supersaw, is a digital creation, not analog.

Sylenth is a low cpu synth that sounds like a decade old low cpu synth. It cannot begin to compete with the current crop of analog emulations... not in features and especially not in sound.
Why "only"? Unison is also just a type of stacking. I actually prefer Sylenth1's stacking mode as it is way more flexible (up to 8 waves per osc incl. detune and stereo width, up to 4 osc's with different waveform and octave settings and retrigger on/off).

Although I never missed them because I don't like harsh sounds, yes, Sylenth1 does not have FM, ring and cross modulation. But I am not sure the Minimoog had them, either.

While of course it doesn't sound as authentically analog as Legend, I couldn't care less. It sounds way better than you seem to think, and in the mix nobody cares whether someone used Legend or Sylenth1. That whole analog and saturation craze is beyond me, I don't even like the way Legend sounds with pads for instance, way too harsh for my ears.
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12651 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:52 am

BONES wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Bones seems to like Legend, which is even more basic than Sylenth1, though.
I like The Legend precisely because it is comparatively basic. The perfect synth has every control I need and not one that I don't. That's the synth that will get me what I need with the least effort. And it's achievable because I can have as many different ones as I like, which makes the whole idea of a synth that can do anything ridiculous. It makes sense in hardware, because hardware is expensive and takes up lots of physical space. Software removes those restrictions but people mostly haven't adapted and still chase that one synth they can use for everything.
Sylenth1 has waveforms beyond saw as well and also filters other than LP, so your comment makes no sense.
What? The Legend has 7 different waveforms per oscillator and four different filter types - 12dB or 24dB per octave Low Pass and the same for Band Pass. So who's comment makes no sense?
And while 4-voice polyphony, unison, BP filter and 12 db filters have been considered huge additions to Legend, Sylenth1 has had all that from the start...
So has The Legend. After all, it's still Version 1, so the additions so far have been extremely minor and it's had polyphony and all those filter types since the very first beta. Here's the release announcement from 2016 - https://www.kvraudio.com/news/synapse-a ... izer-34668
If you need wavetables and such things in order to make music, fine with me. Just don't assume people using good old subtractive analog synths are in any way outdated...
It's actually that thinking that I find stupid. I use whatever works, I couldn't care less what synthesis method is employed. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses, so I use whatever is going to give me the best result for any given situation. I recently got rid of two of my analogue synths but I still have 2.5 more, 5.5 is you want to count my Analog Keys as 4 separate synths. (Rocket has a digital oscillator and analogue filter, so it only half counts.) My other hardware synth is also a V/A. I gravitate towards them because I know how they work, which makes them easier to work with. With ROMplers and wavetables, it's much more hit and miss and you end up relying on presets, which quickly sucks up all your time, so I tend not to use them much.
And there is a giant audience out there that likes the good old sounds that never grow old, you know, babyboomers etc.
Technically, that includes me although I personally identify as Gen X, having had zero interest in music until Punk in 1976/77. But the first thing with that is that you're allowing others to dictate what you do or how you do it, rather than following your own path.

The other thing is that the way those synths were used back in the day is completely different to the way they get used now so it's unlikely anyone from the 1970s would recognise a Model D if they heard it in a track today. Modern mixers make them much easier to tame and fit into a mix than they were back in the day, so you do so much more with them now than you could back then.

What we do is art. If it finds an audience, that's great but we aren't going to go around chasing one or do something just because we think other people might like it. Being true to ourselves is way more important. As with any art, we seek to provoke a reaction and, believe me, the number of people who are actually disturbed by our music is considerable and we're good with that.
That's the problem with KVR and this forum in particular. Many people here are so lost in synths that they don't see the forest for the trees.
That's kind of the point of KVR and you are actually one of the worst offenders. You're defending a synth just because someone else doesn't like it. If that isn't "lost in synths", I don't know what is.
Well, while I also don't like excess and bloat, the Legend would be too limited for me, frankly, it lacks important controls I need.

Sylenth1 has basically the same waveforms as the Minimoog (plus sine), actually I think LD copied the Minimoog in that respect.
https://www.justinwest.ca/sylenth1/imag ... lators.png

It also has LP, BP, and HP filters in both 12 and 24 db variants. So, I don't get your point...

Why do you keep bolding analogue? How childish is that...

Exactaly, whatever works for me. Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc. There was a time when subtractive analog hardware was all people used because it was all there was. (Sure, there were also some early experimental digital synths and samplers, but they were rare and expensive, and thus out of reach of most musicians.)

Nobody dictates what I use, I limit myself because I want to. I don't want to sound modern, I hate modern music.
And I am not alone with my taste. So I am sure others like the same sound as I do. I often read such comments under old music videos on YT.

No, I am defending Sylenth1 against your accusations because your points of criticism make little sense (GUI, parameter ranges etc.), not to mention your confession that you have not tried it in 10 years.
There are definitely things to improve on S1, but oddly you didn't even mention them (reverb quality, dedicated PWM etc.).

Zexila
KVRAF
3178 posts since 18 Mar, 2008

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:28 am

Nexus
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG

lacandon
KVRian
532 posts since 31 Aug, 2012

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:47 am

Logic Retro Synth also the Es 2 lovely synths with fantastic guis to create.Aalto jts nice as well.Love the randomiser in blofeld and arc syn I can totally get my dose with those.Love the sound of u he but his guis are not laid out well except repro. .The simple the gui the more.inspiring sounds u gonna create and not relying on presets.Logic retro synth its really great if they just can add modulation matrix I really will not look at what others release..I like tone 2 electra but the gui is ob the typical plugin side its like a software not like instrument

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14205 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:09 am

fluffy_little_something wrote: Although I never missed them because I don't like harsh sounds, yes, Sylenth1 does not have FM, ring and cross modulation.
They sound harsh on older softsynths... Analog synths and recent emulations like RePro they are characterful.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14205 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:18 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc. There was a time when subtractive analog hardware was all people used because it was all there was.
And Sylenth cannot begin to replicate subtractive analog hardware... much of which had one or more of such features as analog FM, filter FM, ring mod, hard and soft sync, cross modulation, PWM, etc.

Sylenth is a bland lifeless digital synth compared to even simple analog hardware.

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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12651 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 am

pdxindy wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc. There was a time when subtractive analog hardware was all people used because it was all there was.
And Sylenth cannot begin to replicate subtractive analog hardware... much of which had one or more of such features as analog FM, filter FM, ring mod, hard and soft sync, cross modulation, PWM, etc.

Sylenth is a bland lifeless digital synth compared to even simple analog hardware.
The Minimoog had hardly any of those features, either, judging from the Legend...

And I disagree about the sound. Every soft synth is digital, nor is there one analog sound. When you turn off all effects in Repro for instance, the sound is also pretty boring...

felis
KVRist
399 posts since 25 Jul, 2009

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:51 pm

Software - Matrix-12V

Hardware - Waldorf Q and Blofeld

(If I had Largo, that'd probably be another favorite softie).

chk071
KVRAF
17612 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:09 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc. There was a time when subtractive analog hardware was all people used because it was all there was.
And Sylenth cannot begin to replicate subtractive analog hardware... much of which had one or more of such features as analog FM, filter FM, ring mod, hard and soft sync, cross modulation, PWM, etc.

Sylenth is a bland lifeless digital synth compared to even simple analog hardware.
The Minimoog had hardly any of those features, either, judging from the Legend...

And I disagree about the sound. Every soft synth is digital, nor is there one analog sound. When you turn off all effects in Repro for instance, the sound is also pretty boring...
Well, Sylenth1 is surely not comparable with the more recent analog emulations, or analog hardware. That's beside the point though, because it never was meant to be a uncompromising analog emulation, but rather a synth with a high voice count, and a good sound quality at a very reasonable CPU hit. Apples and oranges, kind of.

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sqigls
KVRAF
3370 posts since 25 Dec, 2004 from Melbourne, Australia

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:17 pm

pdxindy wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc. There was a time when subtractive analog hardware was all people used because it was all there was.
And Sylenth cannot begin to replicate subtractive analog hardware... much of which had one or more of such features as analog FM, filter FM, ring mod, hard and soft sync, cross modulation, PWM, etc.

Sylenth is a bland lifeless digital synth compared to even simple analog hardware.
Sylenth1 is rad. it stands up to a lot of hardware actually, and shits all over a lot of software, still. but i don't think it was ever really meant to be an analog clone.

No synth really has life.
the life comes from whoever programs it.
go listen to Hollo's preset bank, if you that's lifeless to you, well, you must have your own personal dictionary definition.

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fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12651 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:48 pm

chk071 wrote:That's beside the point though, because it never was meant to be a uncompromising analog emulation, but rather a synth with a high voice count, and a good sound quality at a very reasonable CPU hit. Apples and oranges, kind of.
:roll:

"Until now only very few software synthesizers have been able to stand up to the sound quality standards of hardware synths. Sylenth1 is one that does."

"On top of that there are 2 state of the art, pure analog sounding filter sections. Each of these consists of 4 filter stages with nonlinear saturation incorporated, in order to emulate the warmth and drive of a real analog filter. The resonance control can be turned up to a level way beyond self-oscillation and combined with the drive control this makes it possible to let the filters SCREAM! Where a lot of digital filters sound like they're made out of cheap plastic, these filters sound rock-solid, warm and raw."

https://www.lennardigital.com/sylenth1/

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V0RT3X
KVRAF
7248 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:07 pm

Sylenth can’t do convincing analog style sounds imo

That being said..

It does however manage to create decent Virus style sounds and for the the year it was released, that was incredible. I think it's kind of a let down that the developer won't add any other features such as PWM, FM, Wavetable etc.

It's still a good synthesizer but I think the developer charges too much for what it is now. Especially when you can find better products with more features that actually make sense for productions.
Last edited by V0RT3X on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14205 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Favorite Synth to Program

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:27 pm

sqigls wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Subtractive works for me, and I don't need anyhting fancy such as FM, wavetable etc. There was a time when subtractive analog hardware was all people used because it was all there was.
And Sylenth cannot begin to replicate subtractive analog hardware... much of which had one or more of such features as analog FM, filter FM, ring mod, hard and soft sync, cross modulation, PWM, etc.

Sylenth is a bland lifeless digital synth compared to even simple analog hardware.
Sylenth1 is rad. it stands up to a lot of hardware actually, and shits all over a lot of software, still. but i don't think it was ever really meant to be an analog clone.

No synth really has life.
the life comes from whoever programs it.
go listen to Hollo's preset bank, if you that's lifeless to you, well, you must have your own personal dictionary definition.
Sylenth certainly doesn't stand up to analog hardware... not even in the same galaxy. Just cause it doesn't come close to analog hardware, doesn't mean it cannot make some lovely sounds. But put it side by side with a Pro One or a Dominion and tweak some knobs... it is indeed bland and lifeless by comparison (not to mention feature deficient).

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