One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Jasinski Wins!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Frostline
KVRist
323 posts since 12 Aug, 2016

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:49 pm

ontrackp wrote:I have to respectfully disagree. I would hope we've all been around this long enough to know what a quick knock-off sketch that has no detail, just a loop going over and over and some sloppy overdubs. That's a throw-away. Remember when Wags would say he spent one hour on his piece? It always sounded like it and deserved a 1.
While it may not be addressed to me specifically it seems like it is debating my position so I am going to respond. :wink: Please forgive me if this is in error.
But, how do you know a person put no effort into it?
You might not appreciate the results of the effort but that does not mean there was no effort involved.
But even if it is an 8 bar loops for 10 minutes a person could have very well spent days agonizing over each single note in the loop, trying different notes, trying different tempos etc.
Just because you could knock something like that out in a moment or two does not mean everyone has that skill or proficiency.
It may indicate that the contest is beyond the person's ability at the current time with their skill level, but it gives no indication of effort(IMO). You can only assume based on the effort it would take you.
And it seems to me that the higher the skill level and proficiency the amount of effort needed is greatly reduced.
So it is quite possible that those with the worse results could be the one's actually putting in the most effort.
The thing with the Wags example, well he flat out stated the amount of effort, so yes seems fair to judge that in the case.
But I don't see many other admissions of little effort, yet somehow you can tell what tracks are a "throw-away" for the person who made them? Even someone whose work you have never heard before?
ontrackp wrote: Don't know what you mean by "the heck of it".
I believe it means similar to "on a whim without concern for the outcome". At least that is how I took it and responded to it based on that interpretation.
ontrackp wrote: If someone posts an entry they are taking a deliberate action asking people who are creating high quality, thought-out, detailed and produced pieces to spend time listening and to grade it. I'm usually short on time but always try to leave constructive comments on every track, because I feel that people who spend time and energy creating a produced song deserve that courtesy.
But surely you admit that you are not successful at leaving comments for every track yes?
Or would a lack of comment indicate you felt the track was a "throw-away"? :shrug:

I do agree with you though that it is a good thing to try to leave a comment for all who participate. While I also try to, I often fall short of things to say. I am going to renew my focus on providing more/better comments in March.
Win10 x64, Reaper 5.XX x64, i5-3330, 8gb ram, GTX-970, UC-33, Panorama P4, Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 and JVC HA-RX700

ontrackp
KVRian
602 posts since 13 Jan, 2013 from United States

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:10 pm

Congratulations Generaldiomedes!

foxAsteria
KVRist
97 posts since 8 Aug, 2004

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:13 pm

Frostline wrote: Ok, so I'll ask you too, how on Earth can you make any determination of the amount of effort a participant puts into their work?
Well maybe I choose the wrong word. I'm speaking more a combination of effort, skill and daring. It's true that with a history of past efforts, one can make a new and quality track almost "effortlessly." But that history is then evident in the complexity, skill and the mix quality. OTOH, a beginner might require a massive effort come up with anything at all and then just repeat it for 1:23, where it ends abruptly (pretty sure this happened once). I can't honor a total lack of musical sensibility, experience or style when it produces nothing but an unpleasant mess with no contrast or variation, even if it took loads of time (and obviously I have no idea how much time it took). Again this is not a score I give if possible. I can think of one or two times it was warranted and I probably upped it to 2 out of pity.

At the other end of the spectrum, I find it hard to give top scores to even the most skilled of participants if it sounds to me exactly like their past works or too smack dab in the middle of some trendy genre. That's part personal bias against what I perceive as a lack of originality and the fact that I know it's easy to stick to what you're good at (I'm a bit of a hypocrite in this regard since all my tracks tend to be dark, beat-heavy and atmospheric, and I rarely break outside of that). But I also can't give too low a score to super well crafted productions even if I happen to hate the style and it sounds e.g. like a cookie-cutter dance track full of sounds I've heard 1000 times before. It isn't fair to the level of expertise and the time it takes to reach.

I suppose in this way my scales are tipped in favor of the more experienced, but there is certainly room for really bright talent to shine through a questionable or amateur production.
~TwilightMysterySchool~
AtmosphericElectronicMusic

TheNeverScene
KVRist
450 posts since 1 Dec, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:19 pm

Generaldiomedes, where did you get that emoji?!?! lol

Man, there are so many staple stoner tones...Goatsnake, Kyuss, Burning Witch, Weedeater. It's a very small niche, but nothing rocks me harder than a fuzzed out tube amp cranked to 13 through blown speakers!
Just a touch of EQ and a tickle of compression

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progtronic
KVRian
519 posts since 27 Jul, 2010

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:33 pm

As you've probably noticed, due to my total lack of comments on submissions.. I'm just not a commenting type.

The short comment (popup) format directly on track, sorta thing.. bugs me. It's really bad at Indaba. At least soundcloud gives you an expanded, full page view of comments option.. but, it still bugs me. :P

Anyway.. It would be cool if there was a KVR music forum, that was specific to listener/artist feedback. Could probably fit it in at the Music Cafe, or maybe create a new forum parent.. "Listener Feedback", or something.. and from there, a specific "OCR Music Feedback" sub-forum.

Artists could specify tracks (or even whole albums worth of music) they might like feedback on. They could go into detail on aspects of their music they might want to have focused discussion on, regarding specific areas of interest (production, mixing, sound design, composition, etc..).

If someone were to ask for that kind of feedback on a forum like that, from a thread like this.. I would be more inclined to participate.

Just a thought. 8)

foxAsteria
KVRist
97 posts since 8 Aug, 2004

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:53 pm

TheNeverScene wrote: Your score stands, but I've yet to see a comment from you on my track...good or bad.
Practice what you preach.
Don't worry, mate. All in good time... Starting the process right now in fact. :wink:
~TwilightMysterySchool~
AtmosphericElectronicMusic

TheNeverScene
KVRist
450 posts since 1 Dec, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:57 pm

Yeah man, exactly my point. Lighten up. We all have our ups and downs, good sides and bad, yada yada. Still like the warbly lead, and I get it :D
Just a touch of EQ and a tickle of compression

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Frostline
KVRist
323 posts since 12 Aug, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:18 pm

foxAsteria wrote: I can't honor a total lack of musical sensibility, experience or style when it produces nothing but an unpleasant mess with no contrast or variation, even if it took loads of time (and obviously I have no idea how much time it took).
Thank you for seeing my point.
All your mentioned reasons there for a 1 score seem valid to me and they require no mystical ability to determine or judge effort which you admit you can't know.
They are all criteria where feedback could be given to the participant so they might try a different method or focus their effort (be it great or small) in a different way.
Much better than tossing a 1, leaving no feedback and reasoning without any evidence the participant did not try. :tu:
Win10 x64, Reaper 5.XX x64, i5-3330, 8gb ram, GTX-970, UC-33, Panorama P4, Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 and JVC HA-RX700

foxAsteria
KVRist
97 posts since 8 Aug, 2004

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:14 am

Votes and comments complete. Thanks all, for an enjoyable evening of synth tunes!
~TwilightMysterySchool~
AtmosphericElectronicMusic

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Tj Shredder
KVRian
1259 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:40 am

foxAsteria wrote:@TJ Shredder - thanks for your feedback, though I can't hear the "unbearably out of tune" aspect myself. To me it's "just enough dissonance." I'll have a more critical listen later.
I was wondering about that, because quite a lot of the comments actually liked it. But I think there is a big difference between dissonance and out of tune. A dissonance is usually a narrow interval in relation to another pitch. In your piece there is a slow moving more than a quarter tone up and down with no relation to a tuning. There are a lot of occasions where this moving pitch does make a lot of sense. A blue note would move from a dissonant pitch and tune to a consonant pitch (rarely heard in modern dance music unless there is a singer involved) or it starts from a consonant pitch and moves into a vibrato. All this is part of an expression and makes sense. An unrelated slow modulation is just putting it out of tune.
As I said, this could be the central message of a piece, but I doubt this was it in yours, or if, it did not stand out as such...
Any aesthetic decision needs a context, you're not experimental by just breaking the rules, it has to make sense and a desire to find out something, maybe unheard before.
The rules are not the music, its the frame in which music can happen. Breaking rules can open new spaces for unheard music, but all is about the music and not the rules...

doctorbob
KVRian
1139 posts since 7 Mar, 2014

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:31 am

@TJ Shredder ... well made points indeed. I used deliberately dissonances in my piece "Space Bubbles" at 1:20, to leading to a resolution a few seconds later, back in OSC 68!! Definitely a musical "device" - still live on my SC page for listening, if you wish (NOT a cheese piece that time!)

BTW - what is your particular style for your DJ-ing???

Cheers,

dB

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Tj Shredder
KVRian
1259 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:08 am

progtronic wrote:Anyway.. It would be cool if there was a KVR music forum, that was specific to listener/artist feedback.
You are right in it, already, doesn't need more than that
progtronic wrote:If someone were to ask for that kind of feedback on a forum like that, from a thread like this.. I would be more inclined to participate.
That is what foxA did, I think especially the more constructive comments should be rather here, the thread belonging to the challenge is a bit more private than SoundCloud. The more enthusiastic comments are welcome for everybody on SoundCloud of course...
I had the feeling, that this round fired off a lot of tips on SoundCloud, which maybe not had been asked for...;-)
Thanks @ foxAsteria for the focus. I bet s/he will not point you down if your comment is here... (I hope s/he would not do that now anyway for anybody...)

P.S. could not find out foxAsterias gender...;-)

foxAsteria
KVRist
97 posts since 8 Aug, 2004

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:53 am

I'm a dude and I didn't dock any points for lack of feedback. Wasn't ever really going to and I completely forgot during my voting that I'd even said that.

Yea maybe I went too far with the pitch LFO amount. I'm not really one who takes any sort of intellectual approach to music so I wouldn't have clear contextual reasons for doing something like that. I'm just following my ears and my feelings about the sounds. I honestly didn't realize it was so prominent until people kept mentioning it. I've always had a habit of putting slight LFOs on pitch to give some subtle variation, but if it's really closer to a semitone of out of tune pitch warble, yea that wasn't really my intention and should probably be less, but I was trying to emphasize the old tape warble that was already kind of built into this synth. I was only maybe like 60-70% satisfied with the final sounds. I just ran out of time to fix everything.
~TwilightMysterySchool~
AtmosphericElectronicMusic

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Tj Shredder
KVRian
1259 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:29 am

doctorbob wrote:@TJ Shredder ... well made points indeed. I used deliberately dissonances in my piece "Space Bubbles" at 1:20, to leading to a resolution a few seconds later, back in OSC 68!! Definitely a musical "device" - still live on my SC page for listening, if you wish (NOT a cheese piece that time!)
Just listened to your space bubbles, for sure I would have given it more points than you usually get from me...;-). Love to read your posts, I am sure we could have a lot of fun jammin'...
doctorbob wrote:BTW - what is your particular style for your DJ-ing???
Don't know if I would call it a style, I would only play music I love myself to dance to, it is going from so called oldies (but only those who never grow old, the timeless ones) to all kinds of styles, you might get some technoid tango and often you will get some Shpongle, I can rarely resist putting them up...
You could call it a journey through different styles, the challenge is to find a good path...

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progtronic
KVRian
519 posts since 27 Jul, 2010

Re: One Synth Challenge #107: VK-1 Viking by Blamsoft (Voting Started!)

Post Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:29 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
progtronic wrote:Anyway.. It would be cool if there was a KVR music forum, that was specific to listener/artist feedback.
You are right in it, already, doesn't need more than that
progtronic wrote:If someone were to ask for that kind of feedback on a forum like that, from a thread like this.. I would be more inclined to participate.
That is what foxA did, I think especially the more constructive comments should be rather here...
Really not the same IMO..

OSC threads should really focus on discussing the months synth, tips and tricks (how to get the most out of it), issues and how to deal with them (workarounds and whatnot), etc.. and (of course) posts of various final entries.

A separate music critique forum would open up discussion to everyone on KVR, not just OSC participants.

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