Cherry Audio Voltage modular

[antic604]

[Captain]

I just went ahead and bought it since, well, I just had a good feeling about it, and their marketing text was pretty good. Been playing with it for some hours today, and initial impressions are good. I made several patches from scratch, and had a great time with it.

The biggest issue I found was that I don't seem to able to sync Voltage properly with my DAW (Logic). Tempo is correct, but there's always some seemingly random delay/offset between Logic & Voltage. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but we'll see... (I asked about this on their forum). Voltage Modular is currently at version 0.9.3, so I guess some bugs are still to be expected.

Also, I'm still not 100% sold on the interface... many modules and some parts of the basic interface look like they could use an experienced UI designer. The interface can also get really slow on my laptop (2017 MacBook Pro, using the AU version), but I'm using an external 5K monitor, and I have also seen similar slowdown in other software, so it's probably not only Voltage's fault.

One thing I also noticed is that input & output jacks look exactly the same. Shouldn't there be something to make them visually different?

But the one thing I'm really looking forward to is the Module Designer. I'm a programmer too, and being able to code your own modules (without using any external tools) is huge. We'll see how it works in practice, but from all I have seen, it's just what I have always dreamed of. I love Reaktor, but often I wish I could just write a few lines of code instead of figuring out how to wire some modules in order to perform some trivial task...

[simmo75]

I just went ahead and bought it since, well, I just had a good feeling about it, and their marketing text was pretty good. Been playing with it for some hours today, and initial impressions are good. I made several patches from scratch, and had a great time with it.

The biggest issue I found was that I don't seem to able to sync Voltage properly with my DAW (Logic). Tempo is correct, but there's always some seemingly random delay/offset between Logic & Voltage. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but we'll see... (I asked about this on their forum). Voltage Modular is currently at version 0.9.3, so I guess some bugs are still to be expected.

Also, I'm still not 100% sold on the interface... many modules and some parts of the basic interface look like they could use an experienced UI designer. The interface can also get really slow on my laptop (2017 MacBook Pro, using the AU version), but I'm using an external 5K monitor, and I have also seen similar slowdown in other software, so it's probably not only Voltage's fault.

One thing I also noticed is that input & output jacks look exactly the same. Shouldn't there be something to make them visually different?

But the one thing I'm really looking forward to is the Module Designer. I'm a programmer too, and being able to code your own modules (without using any external tools) is huge. We'll see how it works in practice, but from all I have seen, it's just what I have always dreamed of. I love Reaktor, but often I wish I could just write a few lines of code instead of figuring out how to wire some modules in order to perform some trivial task...

What advantages does it offer over the free VCV Rack, Reaktor or Softube’s Modular?

[Whywhy]

Hi Captain,
How is the modulation at audio rate?
The Vmodular oscillators and their antialiasing, when they are modulate at audio rate, how they sounds? Thanks in advance!

[FastTriggerFish]

What language is the module designer in ?

[Captain]

What advantages does it offer over the free VCV Rack, Reaktor or Softube’s Modular?

I already wrote about this earlier in the thread. But here's a recap:

VCV Rack: The standalone is great, but I want to run everything inside my DAW, and VCV's bridge system is just too clumsy, at least in its current state. Besides, after fighting with Rewire years ago, I decided I will never again use anything that requires launching two separate applications that require opening two separate projects and then somehow try to stay in sync etc.

Reaktor (Blocks): I love it and use it all the time, but still, with separate "perform" and "edit" views, it doesn't feel quite the same as the others. I like it when cables are always visible and you have only one view, even if it might look more cluttered.

Softube Modular: I had a good point in my mind why I would (probably) prefer Voltage Modular over it, but I can't remember it right now... I demoed SM for a while, and it was great, and I think the UI looks much better than Voltage. But I think it's a closed environment (unlike the others), so coding & selling your own modules is slightly more complicated?

As I said, the one thing VM has over the others is the Module Designer. As it's not out yet, I can't comment on it, but for me, the ultimate sound design environment would be a combination of a visual/graphical UI (modules & cables) and the ability get down to code level is you wish. VM with Module Designer should be just that... but yeah. Have to wait and see.

[Captain]

Hi Captain,
How is the modulation at audio rate?
The Vmodular oscillators and their antialiasing, when they are modulate at audio rate, how they sounds? Thanks in advance!

I tried some audio rate modulations and FM-type sounds, and didn't hear any obvious problems.... but I have to admit I don't know exactly how to spot possible issues, so maybe someone else could also try this. That being said, when I just play a simple sine wave from the oscillator, I can see a lot of overtones in a spectrum analyzer, so it's definitely not a pure sine wave. Maybe this is by design, don't know...

What language is the module designer in ?

It's Java.

[cherryMitch]

Hi all, Mitchell from Cherry Audio here. I'm probably not addressing everyone's questions, so feel free to ask specific stuff and I'll try to give answers.

<<@ Cinebient I wonder if it is strictly mono or can be used polyphonic as well with an easy switch?>>

Voltage Modular has really awesome polyphonic capabilities, but it doesn't work with a "switch" per se, and the reason is that we wanted Voltage to work EXACTLY like a really modular synth. Having a "poly mode" would completely negate how the pitch/gate/trigger CVs functioned (i.e., not like a really analog modular), so instead we added a virtual MIDI jack for poly patches. This works in conjunction with modules that have a MIDI in. There are two ways to create poly patches...

(please have a look at the included screen shot)

- you can use the Poly Oscillator module, which functions like a string-synth divide-down paraphonic synth. It's fully polyphonic (i.e. as many notes as your elbows can hit), and it has a built-in VCA and basic envelope, so it's pretty much a self-contained synth (minus filter). Like a string synth, it is paraphonic, so it doesn't do individually articulated envelopes, so not the thing for plucky/guitar/harpsichord/etc. type sounds, but it's fabulous at making sustained string/pad/organ patches.

- the other way to make poly patches is to use our Poly CV Converter module. It's very similar to the classic Roland MPU-101 module; it takes the virtual MIDI signal and splits it into up to four individual pitch/gate/and velocity CV's, which you would then patch to individual oscillator/filter/amp chains. This gets you individual note articulation; it's basically like home brewing your own Oberheim Four-Voice (or Prophet-5). The patches can get massive really quick, but Voltage has a nifty "duplicate cabinet" feature, so you only need to patch up one "voice," then you can just duplicate the entire row for additional voices. The Poly CV Converter also has a MIDI overflow out jack, so you can chain up as many as you like for unlimited polyphony (until your computer bursts into flames). I think I've had up to 12 dual-osc voices with no problems (to be fair, on a relatively brawny computer).

But since we came up with the Poly Oscillator, I usually just use it, because it's ridiculously easy, and the multi-octave levels are really fun... I know it sounds sacrilegious, but you can really great tonewheel organ sounds using the octave sliders with sine wave setting.

Someone mentioned that input and output jacks look the same. Not to sound snobby, but they don't look different on hardware synths, so we just never really considered it. That said, when you're patching a cable, all of the available destinations stay "normal," and the jacks you can't plug into are temporarily grayed out. It's pretty intuitive - it's never tripped me up. (And believe, we went to tremendous effort to address anything that could trip the user up. I whined about plenty of stuff during development!).

@captain

<<the biggest issue I found was that I don't seem to able to sync Voltage properly with my DAW (Logic). Tempo is correct, but there's always some seemingly random delay/offset between Logic & Voltage. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but we'll see... (I asked about this on their forum). Voltage Modular is currently at version 0.9.3, so I guess some bugs are still to be expected.>>

Would have to know exactly what the patch is, but I suspect the issue you're having is that you must patch the Transport PLAY trigger out jack to the Sync Divider and all sequencer RESET input jacks. If you just have the IO Panel SYNC OUT patched to the Sync Divider, and the Sync Divider CLOCK OUT jack patched to a sequencer, the sequencer will play at the correct project tempo, but it won't be on the "one" - it'll be on some random step of the 96 PPQN sync. You also need to be sure that Logic's song position pointer is on one (or some even number location) when you hit the play button, or because the Voltage seq starts exactly when you hit play.

Believe me, getting everything to sync correctly with the sequencers drove us nuts, and I'm a Logic user, so I know it works- we added RESET inputs to a bunch of modules to fix it.

You also inquired about how well FM/audio-range modulation works; you said you weren't sure what you should be listening for. Believe me, you'd know! Historically, virtual instruments have been pretty bad at extreme AM/FM/sync, etc., and when it's bad, it sounds like a harsh, digital, crusty mess that hurts your ears. The reason why Voltage kicks butt here, to borrow from our web page FAQ, "all module processes are zero-latency and operate on individual samples." Not all virtual instruments work this way, so this makes our sound quality second to none.

Module Appearance... the main modules are color-coded for clarity. Green modules are sound or signal sources, yellow are filters or modifiers, silver are utility, red are controllers (generally of the sequencer-ish variety), and blue are effects. This came from my OCD habit of color-coding all audio tracks in Logic; I can instantly tell what's what without reading a thing. Love it or hate it, that was the idea behind it.

I could warble about Voltage all day long (there's a lot of cool stuff), but one major point I want to mention - moving modules around. One of the things we noticed with other virtual modulars is that it was a PITA to move modules, so we put a great deal of effort into this. Our moving-modules-around logic is untouched by anything on the market. You can easily highlight one (or multiple) modules, grab them anywhere near the top and freely move them wherever you like. Other modules will scoot out of the way to make room. It was difficult to get this logic to perform correctly (lot more complex than it seems), but the end result is that it just works like you want it to, all the time. It's one of the things that make using Voltage such a pleasure.

[Captain]

Someone mentioned that input and output jacks look the same. Not to sound snobby, but they don't look different on hardware synths, so we just never really considered it. That said, when you're patching a cable, all of the available destinations stay "normal," and the jacks you can't plug into are temporarily grayed out. It's pretty intuitive - it's never tripped me up. (And believe, we went to tremendous effort to address anything that could trip the user up. I whined about plenty of stuff during development!).

That someone would be me. Yeah, that's a fair point. Somehow I didn't even realize that non-valid destination jacks are greyed out when patching a cable, and that's very good. And to be fair, some other software modulars on the market are not very consistent with this either, even though there is some effort to try to make inputs & outputs look different.

Would have to know exactly what the patch is, but I suspect the issue you're having is that you must patch the Transport PLAY trigger out jack to the Sync Divider and all sequencer RESET input jacks. If you just have the IO Panel SYNC OUT patched to the Sync Divider, and the Sync Divider CLOCK OUT jack patched to a sequencer, the sequencer will play at the correct project tempo, but it won't be on the "one" - it'll be on some random step of the 96 PPQN sync. You also need to be sure that Logic's song position pointer is on one (or some even number location) when you hit the play button, or because the Voltage seq starts exactly when you hit play.

Believe me, getting everything to sync correctly with the sequencers drove us nuts, and I'm a Logic user, so I know it works- we added RESET inputs to a bunch of modules to fix it.

Yeah, I just realized this myself (I need to connect the reset inputs too), and updated my post at the Cherry Audio forum as well. Thanks, and sorry for not understanding it right away. The funny thing is that after first connecting the reset inputs, Voltage still seemed to be off by a specific (not random) amount. I just decided to try it one more time... and now everything was perfectly in sync. Ugh. Maybe I'm just stupid, or there was something strange happening earlier... no idea. But it seems to work now as intended, which is all that matters.

You also inquired about how well FM/audio-range modulation works; you said you weren't sure what you should be listening for. Believe me, you'd know! Historically, virtual instruments have been pretty bad at extreme AM/FM/sync, etc., and when it's bad, it sounds like a harsh, digital, crusty mess that hurts your ears. The reason why Voltage kicks butt here, to borrow from our web page FAQ, "all module processes are zero-latency and operate on individual samples." Not all virtual instruments work this way, so this makes our sound quality second to none.

Yup, I tried some pretty extreme FM stuff, and everything sounded good & smooth to me.

I could warble about Voltage all day long (there's a lot of cool stuff), but one major point I want to mention - moving modules around. One of the things we noticed with other virtual modulars is that it was a PITA to move modules, so we put a great deal of effort into this. Our moving-modules-around logic is untouched by anything on the market. You can easily highlight one (or multiple) modules, grab them anywhere near the top and freely move them wherever you like. Other modules will scoot out of the way to make room. It was difficult to get this logic to perform correctly (lot more complex than it seems), but the end result is that it just works like you want it to, all the time. It's one of the things that make using Voltage such a pleasure.

Yes, I wanted to mention that I absolutely love this. Also the ability to scale/zoom the current patch to fit the window is great.

[cherryMitch]

<<Yeah, I just realized this myself (I need to connect the reset inputs too)...>>

With patches that use the Sync Divider+multiple sequencers, I usually route the IO panel PLAY trigger out to a Multiple module (as opposed to the "built-in" six-way jack multiple); it makes for a little less confusing cable spaghetti at the top of the screen.

<<Thanks, and sorry for not understanding it right away.>>

No worries. My huge Donna Summer/"I Feel Love" patch was maddeningly out of sync for about month until we figured out the reset jack dilemma (and once we figure it out, that's when I noticed reset jacks on tons of hardware modules... #WheelReinvention)

[Sequent]

I'm impressed. Voltage Modular sounds good and seems pretty well laid out graphically. It also seems to be pretty happy on my notebook. I'm looking forward to hearing how it sounds on the studio monitors. Also looking forward to the final release and to seeing what the future holds for it as an instrument and as a platform for new module ideas.

[Cinebient]

@cherryMitch: Thank´s for the answers!
I do hope the early access is valid until the official version is out....have to wait for the next pay check.
So far it looks nice and i like what i hear.
I don´t like working with Reaktor and Softube modular isn´t what i want to use either.
So far P900 is by far my favorite in terms of GUI, workflow and sound but it´s limited as well in terms of modules and variety of character and so this modular could come in to fill this gap.
Is there a manual pdf somewhere to download?
Can i split midi channels inside of the plug-in so that i can use it for MPE controllers?
Edit: I see in the screen shot that this should work as well if i use a poly CV converter per midi channel.

[Cinebient]

I like that answer in the FAQ about what sets it apart others:
Voltage Modular is much more than just a musical instrument; it’s a complete and infinitely expandable modular platform. That’s not just marketing double talk - our Module Designer application can be used by software developers to design and program custom modules, with no functionality limitations. Modules can be written to perform nearly any function - stream Internet radio, display video files, or play Pac-Man. If you’ve got a clever idea and a some programming chops, you can build a module for Voltage Modular. Completed modules can be submitted to our Module Store*, allowing programmers to directly sell new modules to Voltage users directly from the standalone or plug-in versions of Voltage Modular!

I hope we see some interesting things for it.
As i said Reaktor offers awesome things but i hate the workflow and there isn´t much happening with Softube and other modulars really.

[NothanUmber]

Can i split midi channels inside of the plug-in so that i can use it for MPE controllers?
Edit: I see in the screen shot that this should work as well if i use a poly CV converter per midi channel.

Just bought the currently discounted version to experiment in how far it works well for poly MPE usecases.
With the poly cv converter we can get per voice pitch bends - which is nice. But for poly expression or poly CCs (of which MPE instruments usually use the timbre cc 74 and channel aftertouch) the only solution I found was to use one midi cc converter module per voice. So for 8 voice MPE you already need ten midi modules alone (two poly cv converters and eight midi cc converters).
The poly oscillator apparently uses global pitch bend and thus doesn't seem to be meant for MPE usecases - and it is limited to the integrated "lite" A(DS)R and VCA, so e.g. no per-voice key-tracking filters possible that way.
Creating the voices is greatly simplified by the copy cabinet feature (which fortunately also has an option to copy wires etc.) But it currently has no feature to keep these voices in sync, so "polyfication" would have to be the last step.
One additional inconvenience is that we can only connect up to six cables to an output. So having 8-10 voices (which is what I usually aim for with an MPE synth) makes it necessary to explicitly use "Multiple" dispatcher modules all over the place.

So Voltage is certainly able to create MPE patches. Pretty much like VCV - with the additional cabinet copy feature in Voltage and the MPE midi to cc converter in VCV (that also covers timbre and aftertouch CCs) that come in handy. But it's still a little invoncenient to tweak MPE patches. Any change has to be manually propagated to all voices.
Hope that still changes. Until then neither Voltage nor VCV will probably become my "goto" synth for MPE patches. But it's nice to play around with both!

Have written forum posts with suggestions how to make poly usage more convenient for both VCV and Voltage in the individual forums. (The proposals differ because on the one side for VCV we already have a great number of existing third party modules that don't consider the poly case - so any realistic solution would have to be backwards compatible. And on the other side the Voltage devs have expressed their desire to stay 100% close to the hardware metaphor - so the proposed solution there is only trying to reduce redundant per voice patching work by automating the synchronization between cabinets that are otherwise still only using single signal cv cables)
But I am aware that there are many people with other requirements towards these synths. So even if it should turn out that neither is for me both are certainly great in what they do. And perhaps one or the other considers a convenient "poly experience" as important. (P900 looks interesting, but it doesn't seem to offer the option to write own modules - and it is Mac only)

But if others come to similar conclusions - please add your voice (poly voices are always great ). So the devs see that it's not just one lonely 3d expression instrument fanatic looking forward to more convenient poly patching and MPE support:
https://forums.cherryaudio.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14
https://github.com/VCVRack/Rack/issues/1084

[rlared]

This looks like a real winner.