KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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10044 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:14 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:47 pm
v1o wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:52 pm
braj wrote:They already have three versions of the hardware now, more if you consider the different color schemes too. Why not release another with patch memory and mapping to act as a controller for the plugin? I mean, what the hell, it's already a party, what's one more guest?
Because they’d have to redo all the electronics to bring patch memory. They’d have to make all the controls digital.
And it would double the price at least
Which would still make it worth buying over one without.
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Stefken
KVRAF
1977 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:10 am

That's why e.g. the SE-02 interests me. It's sort of a minimoog but with added features, an analog signal path but digitally controlled. And at a very nice price.

I don't like synths without patch memory either.

Note: a SE-02 is not for people who don't like ladder filters. :wink:
Last edited by Stefken on Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF
7373 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:57 am

It's a shame they didn't make a larger, keyboard version of the SE-02. Look at the Poly-D...selling like hotcakes. And it ain't the "polyphony" which is kind of gimmicky in all honesty. Folks were longing for an affordable Minimoog, not a Minimoog desktop version. If Roland/SE got there first with an SE-02 with 2 octave, full-size keyboard AND patch memory, that would've been huge.

Wait until the Behringer UB-Xa drops. All analog, full size 5-octave keyboard, patch memory, built in effects, aftertouch...at Behringer prices? That thing's going to be really huge unless they royally f*ck something about it up.

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10044 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:04 pm

You can buy the Boutique keyboard thing for the SE-02. It' sonly an extra $100. And the thing that will stop me from buying the UB-Xa is the 5 octave, full-size keyboard. Give it to me with a three octave mini keyboard that fits in a carry-on bag and I'd be all over it.
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zerocrossing
KVRAF
10217 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:45 pm

Why are we ignoring the Behringer Odyssey?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... lsrc=aw.ds
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10044 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:27 pm

Because it has no patch memory and Behringer has no moral right to be making it.
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zerocrossing
KVRAF
10217 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:43 am

BONES wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:27 pm
Because it has no patch memory and Behringer has no moral right to be making it.
OIC, I saw memory slots and I didn’t realize they were only for the arpeggiator.

I’m not sure why you’re cool with Studio Electronics, who’ve been cloning Moog oscillators and filters since the 90s and Behringer... or even Korg. The only actual difference is that Uli is a bit of a jerk in public and weirdly litigious.

In software, I think Oddity 2 sounds a little better than the Korg software, but there’s a shoot-out where none seem to sound like the KARP. I’ve compared the ARP filter in my ATC-X with Oddity 2 and I thought it was very close. ATC-Xs are very hard to find, but they’re really worth it if you can get your hands on one. The ATC-1 with the multi-cartridge adaptor is similar but lacks distortion. Keep your eyes out for the ATC-X. That little synth covers a ton of ground and does things that none of the software emulations do.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
67274 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:09 am

BONES wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:27 pm
Because it has no patch memory and Behringer has no moral right to be making it.
since when has business had morals?
is it legal? yup, oh well. up to korg to compete instead of price fixing.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/roland- ... g-watchdog

both illegal and immoral imo.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
67274 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:13 am

on the other hand, ill never touch another yamaha in my life, grassing bastards.

electro
KVRAF
4679 posts since 6 May, 2002

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:09 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:43 am
In software, I think Oddity 2 sounds a little better than the Korg software, but there’s a shoot-out where none seem to sound like the KARP. I’ve compared the ARP filter in my ATC-X with Oddity 2 and I thought it was very close. ATC-Xs are very hard to find, but they’re really worth it if you can get your hands on one. The ATC-1 with the multi-cartridge adaptor is similar but lacks distortion. Keep your eyes out for the ATC-X. That little synth covers a ton of ground and does things that none of the software emulations do.
Gforce Oddity had the architecture and parameter ranges correct since version 1.0 which is why you could dial in Odyssey patch sheets with perfect results. I think this may be one area the Creamware/Sonic Core Prodyssey wasn't so strong even though it may have had the higher precision audio engine.
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Weasel-Boy
KVRist
148 posts since 12 May, 2004

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:01 pm

Bones wrote:
Because it has no patch memory and Behringer has no moral right to be making it.
vurt wrote:
since when has business had morals?
is it legal? yup, oh well. up to korg to compete instead of price fixing.
In the case of Behringer, historically, they have defined the standard of how low the morality bar can be set.

As to Behringer having no moral right to be making it….I totally agree. There is an old joke about Berhringer where downtime in their R&D department is defined by how long it takes to replace the toner cartridge in the copy machine. And there is a real world reason why the KORG version costs more than $300 US than the Behringer version: Behringer uses substandard parts. I can almost guarantee that a good deal of the buttons, switches and sliders on the Behringer version will fail within a year’s worth of daily use, as opposed to the KORG.

You gets what you pays for.
On a number of Macs

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10044 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:05 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:43 am
I’m not sure why you’re cool with Studio Electronics, who’ve been cloning Moog oscillators and filters since the 90s and Behringer... or even Korg. The only actual difference is that Uli is a bit of a jerk in public and weirdly litigious.
Who says I am OK with Studio Electronics? The difference with Korg is they have employed one of ARP's founders on their Odyssey product and do it with their blessing. They even use the ARP name with permission. OTOH, Behringer change the name just enough to avoid a law suit and then rip the original off wholesale. I bet they never even approach the original developers to see if they are interested in working on their knock-offs.
vurt wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:09 am
since when has business had morals?
When their customers have insisted on it.
oh well. up to korg to compete instead of price fixing.
Hard to do when you pay for the rights to use a brand and your competitor doesn't. And I would be very surprised if it was legal, I think Behringer relies on the fact that costly legal battles make no sense for businesses the size of synth manufacturers. Could you imagine Ford sitting back and doing nothing if another company started making and selling a Focus clone under the name "Hocus"? And before you bleat that it's not the same thing, I'd point out that Korg still sell their own MS20 but that didn't stop Behringer from doing one, too.
And, if you read the article, it's widespread so probably including Behringer. But I don't see it as immoral, companies should be able to control the prices for which their products sell. The customer pays it or they don't. There is no morality or integrity to the free market. You're only outraged because you are looking at it through the lens of your own self-interest.
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zerocrossing
KVRAF
10217 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:57 pm

Weasel-Boy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:01 pm
Bones wrote:
Because it has no patch memory and Behringer has no moral right to be making it.
vurt wrote:
since when has business had morals?
is it legal? yup, oh well. up to korg to compete instead of price fixing.
In the case of Behringer, historically, they have defined the standard of how low the morality bar can be set.

As to Behringer having no moral right to be making it….I totally agree. There is an old joke about Berhringer where downtime in their R&D department is defined by how long it takes to replace the toner cartridge in the copy machine. And there is a real world reason why the KORG version costs more than $300 US than the Behringer version: Behringer uses substandard parts. I can almost guarantee that a good deal of the buttons, switches and sliders on the Behringer version will fail within a year’s worth of daily use, as opposed to the KORG.

You gets what you pays for.
Here’s how I see it. Since I’ve been on this forum (probably around 2005) I’ve been reading about people moaning about how vintage gear was so expensive and getting worse all the time. Software developers have been running their Xerox machines, with varying degrees of success, but enough people are unsatisfied with their copies that there was a big hole in the market. Uli saw it, realized he had the muscles and the interest to fill it, so he did. Plain and simple. No one else was really doing it. Korg maybe, but a bit feebly.

As for Behringer being sub standard, I’ve been using their FCB1010s for years. I bought two of them, one as a stand by, and I’ve never had to use it. It’s basically mint. I had a Deepmind 12 for 6 months, it seemed OK, decent for the price. I just didn’t like the basic tone that much, but I did pick up an X-Air and a ADA8200. Both don’t really get as much physical use, they both seem fine and are great values. Anyway, I’ve yet to touch their latest crop of clones, but considering their price, I bet they last a decent amount of time, unless you’re bashing them about on a tour.

I don’t mean this as if I’m standing up for Uli, I’m just saying that he’s just a bit more obvious at what he does. If you want to direct your moral ire towards some companies, there are a lot worse.
Last edited by zerocrossing on Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zerocrossing
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10217 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:00 pm

electro wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:09 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:43 am
In software, I think Oddity 2 sounds a little better than the Korg software, but there’s a shoot-out where none seem to sound like the KARP. I’ve compared the ARP filter in my ATC-X with Oddity 2 and I thought it was very close. ATC-Xs are very hard to find, but they’re really worth it if you can get your hands on one. The ATC-1 with the multi-cartridge adaptor is similar but lacks distortion. Keep your eyes out for the ATC-X. That little synth covers a ton of ground and does things that none of the software emulations do.
Gforce Oddity had the architecture and parameter ranges correct since version 1.0 which is why you could dial in Odyssey patch sheets with perfect results. I think this may be one area the Creamware/Sonic Core Prodyssey wasn't so strong even though it may have had the higher precision audio engine.
I did try the Creamware stuff during my time with a XITE-1 and I felt the GForce was better. Not just in terms of parameter ranges, but general sound.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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10044 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: KORG ARP Odyssey - Hardware v Software Question

Post Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:05 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:57 pm
Here’s how I see it. Since I’ve been on this forum (probably around 2005) I’ve been reading about people moaning about how vintage gear was so expensive and getting worse all the time. Software developers have been running their Xerox machines, with varying degrees of success, but enough people are unsatisfied with their copies that there was a big hole in the market. Uli saw it, realized he had the muscles and the interest to fill it, so he did. Plain and simple. No one else was really doing it. Korg maybe, but a bit feebly.
How about Moog or Oberheim or DSE/Sequential? They are all in the same business and Behringer selling an OB-Xa has to hurt sales of the OB-6.
As for Behringer being sub standard, I’ve been using their FCB1010s for years. I bought two of them, one as a stand by, and I’ve never had to use it.
My experience has been mixed. Most of the Behringer stuff I've bought has been fine but I've had a couple of spectacular duds, too - a pair of DI boxes and a multi-effects unit, none of which lasted much past their 12 month warranty period.
I don’t mean this as if I’m standing up for Uli, I’m just saying that he’s just a bit more obvious at what he does. If you want to direct your moral ire towards some companies, there are a lot worse.
To me it comes across as having no respect.
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