Well what would you consider a better designed sampling solution?spirit wrote:The problem for me isn't that Geist2 is too complex. I like complex. The problem is that it's poorly designed, tedious and infuriating. I resent wasting my time struggling with someone elses D-grade design choices.
Your thoughts on Geist 2
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- KVRAF
- 8414 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia
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- KVRist
- 384 posts since 15 Jan, 2003
Overall, I am moderate fan of Geist 2. It is a solid drum VST with more functionality than I will ever need, but I do not find Geist 2 overly complicated.
With the exception of size scaling, I do not have a favorable opinion of the GUI changes implemented in Geist 2 (or Strobe 2), but that's a personal matter. Otherwise, I have no complaints about the said product and, depending on a person's needs, would recommend Geist 2 to others at the present sale price.
With the exception of size scaling, I do not have a favorable opinion of the GUI changes implemented in Geist 2 (or Strobe 2), but that's a personal matter. Otherwise, I have no complaints about the said product and, depending on a person's needs, would recommend Geist 2 to others at the present sale price.
Last edited by Silaris on Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2982 posts since 9 Dec, 2008
Yup, just like you said in a post already in the thread.spirit wrote:The problem for me isn't that Geist2 is too complex. I like complex. The problem is that it's poorly designed, tedious and infuriating. I resent wasting my time struggling with someone elses D-grade design choices.
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- KVRAF
- 8414 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia
samsam wrote:Yup, just like you said in a post already in the thread.spirit wrote:The problem for me isn't that Geist2 is too complex. I like complex. The problem is that it's poorly designed, tedious and infuriating. I resent wasting my time struggling with someone elses D-grade design choices.
.. KVR.
Last edited by V0RT3X on Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2418 posts since 9 Nov, 2016
Noooo, don't start buying stuff again.wagtunes wrote:I'm kind of on the fence given some of the comments about usability.
(It won't fit on your screen anyways).
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- KVRian
- 1077 posts since 21 Nov, 2005
Thanks for the warm welcome.V0RT3X wrote: Glad you joined the rest of us Geist users! I just bought the upgrade as well, but I’ve demoed it enough to know I’ll be using this lots in Ableton live 9.
I would definitely spend some times going over the manual if you aren’t used to the workflow.
https://fxpansion.com/support/manuals/
Lots of questions get answered in there.
There's definitely a lot that this can do which would accelerate workflow in Live for me, I've been kinda stuck in 16 bar purgatory with a lot of unfinished projects but through recording these sections to wav and then playing them alongside other sections to see what would fit, I realise that there's actually some really nice parts to create a full arrangement. However, dragging more and more parts into Live sees the arrangement page get rather scary, and a lot of arduous adjustment to repitch and EQ each of the parts to fit with the other sections. I can see that this will make it much simpler to layer parts as sliced loops and easier to adjust once in Geist.
Also considered that the resampling options allow for faster evolution of breaks and other parts as I record, keeping it all "in-house" and also that mixing elements of different parts into new would be simpler and easier than I can currently manage in Live.
Oh, and £60 is a pretty good bargain for all this capability.
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- KVRAF
- 5813 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany
Geist 2 is a big improvement to Geist 1. I use it in all my productions and love it.
There are of course a lot features implemented most people don't need but also for the "Battery users" Geist can do the job (and is IMO a lot better compared to NI Battery).
With such complex software like Geist it needs a good workflow to come quickly to great results.
So some ideas and how I use Geist2:
In most cases you need only 1 engine.
Enable multiple outs for Geist in the DAW (if needed) at least 4 (kick, snare, hats, percussions) this should result in 4 different outputs in the DAW which should be grouped together to one group (eg "drums").
In most cases only the output of a pad will be changed, so the pad mixer is the right place. The default output is "parent" and this means the routing of the parent which is for a pad the engine. The default out for a engine is the "master".
The output of a pad should be changed in the pad mixer to the different outputs enabled within the DAW so all snares are routed to eg. S1 all hats to S2 and so on.
The best way is to design the drum patterns in the pattern editor in Geist in combination with a bass or a part of the project running. Fills, breaks and all this stuff too. Same with percussions.
If the patterns are ready drag & drop them to the Geist midi/instrument track (and duplicate them for the track) and turn the Geist engine off (this will also disable the patterns in Geist so you don't hear the Geist pattern and the midi triggered drums from the DAW at the same time). That's all.
Small modifications are made in the DAW drum track. A drum event can also be moved back from the DAW to Geist to replace the pattern or create a new one.
Sometimes it makes sense to split different drum parts to different midi tracks eg. to have percussions on a own midi track.
The midi track can be routed to Geist (the midi channel represents the engine, so Midi channel 1 will output to the engine 1)
I don't use the sequencer in Geist ("Song") or the switching of patterns from the DAW. At the end all drums are midi events in the DAW project which makes it easier to modify them or use in the future a completely different drum sampler.
If the project is finished, it's of course always a good idea to render the drum tracks to audio (same with all other tracks) to have a "fallback plan" if none of this plug-ins are installed).
There are of course a lot features implemented most people don't need but also for the "Battery users" Geist can do the job (and is IMO a lot better compared to NI Battery).
With such complex software like Geist it needs a good workflow to come quickly to great results.
So some ideas and how I use Geist2:
In most cases you need only 1 engine.
Enable multiple outs for Geist in the DAW (if needed) at least 4 (kick, snare, hats, percussions) this should result in 4 different outputs in the DAW which should be grouped together to one group (eg "drums").
In most cases only the output of a pad will be changed, so the pad mixer is the right place. The default output is "parent" and this means the routing of the parent which is for a pad the engine. The default out for a engine is the "master".
The output of a pad should be changed in the pad mixer to the different outputs enabled within the DAW so all snares are routed to eg. S1 all hats to S2 and so on.
The best way is to design the drum patterns in the pattern editor in Geist in combination with a bass or a part of the project running. Fills, breaks and all this stuff too. Same with percussions.
If the patterns are ready drag & drop them to the Geist midi/instrument track (and duplicate them for the track) and turn the Geist engine off (this will also disable the patterns in Geist so you don't hear the Geist pattern and the midi triggered drums from the DAW at the same time). That's all.
Small modifications are made in the DAW drum track. A drum event can also be moved back from the DAW to Geist to replace the pattern or create a new one.
Sometimes it makes sense to split different drum parts to different midi tracks eg. to have percussions on a own midi track.
The midi track can be routed to Geist (the midi channel represents the engine, so Midi channel 1 will output to the engine 1)
I don't use the sequencer in Geist ("Song") or the switching of patterns from the DAW. At the end all drums are midi events in the DAW project which makes it easier to modify them or use in the future a completely different drum sampler.
If the project is finished, it's of course always a good idea to render the drum tracks to audio (same with all other tracks) to have a "fallback plan" if none of this plug-ins are installed).
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- KVRian
- 1077 posts since 21 Nov, 2005
One concern for me was that generally when I tap in beats and find a groove I like, they're usually somewhat off grid and I didn't want to end up with overly quantized grooves, so was quite happy that Geist will just add in time shifts to the respected graph and I can then adjust that to the grid if required.
Reading software manuals, listening to jungle and drinking tons of coffee - ahhh Sunday morning
Reading software manuals, listening to jungle and drinking tons of coffee - ahhh Sunday morning
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- Banned
- 1780 posts since 26 Aug, 2012
So how does this workflow, interface, sound, etc of Geist influence the style of music you write?
What genres would it be ideal for? and are these styles now a little dated. It seems, for example to be good for hip hop beat making working with slices and also the polyrhythm, randomizing techniques which are used in complextro. Both these styles are not as relevant now. Are there any newer styles of music that could benefit from this tool?
What genres would it be ideal for? and are these styles now a little dated. It seems, for example to be good for hip hop beat making working with slices and also the polyrhythm, randomizing techniques which are used in complextro. Both these styles are not as relevant now. Are there any newer styles of music that could benefit from this tool?
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- KVRAF
- 25421 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Yeah, Geist can record off grid. That is an essential feature for me.shonky wrote:One concern for me was that generally when I tap in beats and find a groove I like, they're usually somewhat off grid and I didn't want to end up with overly quantized grooves, so was quite happy that Geist will just add in time shifts to the respected graph and I can then adjust that to the grid if required.
Reading software manuals, listening to jungle and drinking tons of coffee - ahhh Sunday morning
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- KVRAF
- 8414 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia
I’m Curious how the Ableton people use Geist2 in their workflow.
I mostly do all my mixing/sequencing in geist and the trigger the clips using 1 note loop clips in Live.
I find that workflow fast! Sometimes I’ll use multiple bus outs in geist so i can mix with my 3rd party bus comps (Cytomic The Glue) or multi-band fx (Trash, Ohmicide) in live. Mostly for simplicitys sake I like to mix with only the geist effects.
I mostly do all my mixing/sequencing in geist and the trigger the clips using 1 note loop clips in Live.
I find that workflow fast! Sometimes I’ll use multiple bus outs in geist so i can mix with my 3rd party bus comps (Cytomic The Glue) or multi-band fx (Trash, Ohmicide) in live. Mostly for simplicitys sake I like to mix with only the geist effects.
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tapiodmitriyevich tapiodmitriyevich https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=391928
- KVRist
- 411 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1
Semi OT: Any hints they are working on anything? Geist 3? Strobe 3?
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OneOfManyPauls OneOfManyPauls https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=382596
- KVRian
- 1103 posts since 17 Jul, 2016 from Wales, UK
I tried the demo for a few days and decided I had to have this in my toolbox at this price.
I already have tremor and am a fan of the transmod+probability+polyrhythms, and I love how easy it is to sample in geist 2 from other VSTs/external hardware using the spitter companion plugin. Just seems a very fast and intuitive workflow for me.
I hooked up an m-audio trigger finger pro that was gathering dust, and looks like that will have a new lease of life as a controller for this.
Also get to choose 2 free expansions too which was an added bonus I hadn't noticed before I bought it. The choice includes the £79 "Best of Guru" 3gb/9,500 wav/aif sample expander.
I already have tremor and am a fan of the transmod+probability+polyrhythms, and I love how easy it is to sample in geist 2 from other VSTs/external hardware using the spitter companion plugin. Just seems a very fast and intuitive workflow for me.
I hooked up an m-audio trigger finger pro that was gathering dust, and looks like that will have a new lease of life as a controller for this.
Also get to choose 2 free expansions too which was an added bonus I hadn't noticed before I bought it. The choice includes the £79 "Best of Guru" 3gb/9,500 wav/aif sample expander.
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- KVRAF
- 2301 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA
I've had Geist 2 for a while...
I lean more to the "bloated, annoying POS" side of things in this thread, overall....which is really too bad, but it is what it is.
I think the *most* annoying thing to me, though, is this:
Every right-click context menu, every click that results in a menu (and there are many!), and every selection of an item inside those menus, feels sluggish. It's like there's a very short, but noticeable, delay when opening these context menus, and again when choosing things inside these context menus. And it adds up. And it sucks....it makes usage of the whole platform feel sluggish, janky, SLOW.
Even if the thing were far less bloated and far better organized, this point alone would still make me feel negative about the product.
Oh, this same sluggishness happens elsewhere, too: moving envelope points in the sample window, for example. And probably a zillion other places I'm forgetting.
Add to this the insanely sluggish pace of development from Fxpansion as a whole ever since the ROLI buyout, and I'd conclude, for anyone who doesn't have Geist2 but was thinking about it: Just Pass.
-M
I lean more to the "bloated, annoying POS" side of things in this thread, overall....which is really too bad, but it is what it is.
I think the *most* annoying thing to me, though, is this:
Every right-click context menu, every click that results in a menu (and there are many!), and every selection of an item inside those menus, feels sluggish. It's like there's a very short, but noticeable, delay when opening these context menus, and again when choosing things inside these context menus. And it adds up. And it sucks....it makes usage of the whole platform feel sluggish, janky, SLOW.
Even if the thing were far less bloated and far better organized, this point alone would still make me feel negative about the product.
Oh, this same sluggishness happens elsewhere, too: moving envelope points in the sample window, for example. And probably a zillion other places I'm forgetting.
Add to this the insanely sluggish pace of development from Fxpansion as a whole ever since the ROLI buyout, and I'd conclude, for anyone who doesn't have Geist2 but was thinking about it: Just Pass.
-M
