Your thoughts on Geist 2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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wagtunes
KVRAF
13999 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:01 pm

deastman wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
plexuss wrote:I ignored Geist when it went on sale but this time around decided to try it out. I played with the demo for a couple hours and started to realize the potention of it for me. Initally I thought it was just for "loop producers". I bought it on Friday and after a few hours of playing around with it, created this track. It's Geist, full 8 engines going, with some extra tracks done in Logic. So with no exposure to Geist in the past or even any other loop software, this is the result. Not ready-for-prime-time but an example of what a few hours exposure to the tool can conjure.

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/my ... mo/s-tWStv

And here is a shorter track that I was able to throw together fairly quickly

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/a- ... mo/s-94UUW
I really like this. But here's the thing. And maybe I just don't get what something like Geist is for.

I'm not hearing anything here that can't be done with any drum machine and/or samples and/or synths. At least not sound wise, albeit probably with a lot more manual effort. So is the point of something like Geist essentially to automate a lot of things going at one time, with relative ease, so you're not creating tracks and tracks of patterns with multiple instruments?

In other words, speed and convenience.
The point of Geist isn’t to impart some special sound. It’s a sampler, after all. I think it is best thought of as an MPC in software. It’s all about the workflow. I would say the target audience is anyone who likes doing a lot of their own sampling and slicing, then sequencing and playing those back from a pad-based paradigm. And the key discriminators are easy auto sampling and mapping, a flexible modulation system, and per-step probability. In that respect, it also competes with Elektron boxes as much as it does an MPC or Maschine.
So it's not really just a drum machine.

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plexuss
KVRAF
2369 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:10 pm

wagtunes wrote:[snip...]
So it's not really just a drum machine.
IMHO, no. It's a loop factory. One other cool aspect is that I can import in a couple bars of a sequencer arpeggio, convert that to a step based loop, then mess with the pattern created and layer with other loops. Each of the 8 engines can be arranged across multiple tracks in Logic for further plugin processing. So it's 8 parallel loops each with potentially different timing and patterns, each on it's own track in your DAW.

I ended up buying a lot of Lopp Loft loops over the years when there were deep discount sales. I've also got loops from other sources. I don't generally work with loops because I find them too inflexible. Geist now allows me to use these loops in a very flexible and creative way. I've only begun to explore the features of Geist and I feel dumb for not considering it in my workflow earlier.

On sale its around $85 USD. It comes with 2 customer-selected explansion. the biggest explansion is Best from Guru which contains a lot of loops and assets for use in Geist. I also selected Analog Mayhem because it seemed synthy-experimental. That's pretty good value for $85 I think.

Try the demo of course and see if you can gel with the workflow. But you will need to RTFM which working with it.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
2812 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:13 pm

No, it’s not just a drum machine.it started out as an MPC replacement and giest1 carried that into advanced MPC replacement, but Giest2 got feedback from everyone and their grandma and it became it’s own thing. It’s taken on a new identity and that’s why some people are frustrated with it. I like it and use it... like I said, I see why people’s are a little frustrated that it veered from it’s original intent though. I think in the case of guest 2, it’s more of a sampler workstation at this point.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13999 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:22 pm

plexuss wrote:
wagtunes wrote:[snip...]
So it's not really just a drum machine.
IMHO, no. It's a loop factory. One other cool aspect is that I can import in a couple bars of a sequencer arpeggio, convert that to a step based loop, then mess with the pattern created and layer with other loops. Each of the 8 engines can be arranged across multiple tracks in Logic for further plugin processing. So it's 8 parallel loops each with potentially different timing and patterns, each on it's own track in your DAW.

I ended up buying a lot of Lopp Loft loops over the years when there were deep discount sales. I've also got loops from other sources. I don't generally work with loops because I find them too inflexible. Geist now allows me to use these loops in a very flexible and creative way. I've only begun to explore the features of Geist and I feel dumb for not considering it in my workflow earlier.

On sale its around $85 USD. It comes with 2 customer-selected explansion. the biggest explansion is Best from Guru which contains a lot of loops and assets for use in Geist. I also selected Analog Mayhem because it seemed synthy-experimental. That's pretty good value for $85 I think.

Try the demo of course and see if you can gel with the workflow. But you will need to RTFM which working with it.
So if you're really into working with loops, this is like you're dream machine, provided you can wrap your head around the controls.

While I've never really been a "loop" person, I think part of the reason is that they ARE so time consuming to put together IF you're going to do it manually.

This just might be something I'm going to look into. It might bring a new dimension to my composing.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
2812 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:25 pm

I think of giest 2 as more of a Korg M1 but, of course most people just load up preset loops and hit play. Don't know why you would need to buy Giest for that though.

Imaak
KVRer
8 posts since 26 Nov, 2017

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:37 pm

I really wanted to like Geist because I'm in need of a good sequencer. For me personally, controls feel sluggish, especially knob behaviour. Everything just feels like its crammed into a small space. The design isn't well thought out imo. Workflow aspect feels really compromised in favour of more features & "power". Such a nice sequencer and sampler concept on paper. Only if it was implemented better.

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Astralp
KVRAF
1642 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:45 pm

The strongest feature for me is the ability to switch patterns in real-time via midi notes. To spend 10 minutes jamming a few patterns and then play them as an instrument is very unique, I can't think of any other software or hardware that does it so easily. Not trying to promote anything but these are a couple of old tracks I did using Geist 1 years ago which demonstrates what I'm talking about. All the Drums and Vocal Bits are done in a single Geist and triggered as I described:

https://soundcloud.com/astralp/seqs-love-me-do

https://soundcloud.com/astralp/seqs-yeh

No loops used, just drum hits and various dialogue. I've always had a thing for chopping vocals and Geist is as easy as it gets, even the Octatrack isn't as good although it makes up for that in a zillion other ways :)

I haven't really used v2 much as I don't get time to make music much these days but it seems like it's moved in a good direction and at that price I think is great value.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
2812 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:38 pm

Astralp wrote:The strongest feature for me is the ability to switch patterns in real-time via midi notes. To spend 10 minutes jamming a few patterns and then play them as an instrument is very unique, I can't think of any other software or hardware that does it so easily. Not trying to promote anything but these are a couple of old tracks I did using Geist 1 years ago which demonstrates what I'm talking about. All the Drums and Vocal Bits are done in a single Geist and triggered as I described:

https://soundcloud.com/astralp/seqs-love-me-do

https://soundcloud.com/astralp/seqs-yeh

No loops used, just drum hits and various dialogue. I've always had a thing for chopping vocals and Geist is as easy as it gets, even the Octatrack isn't as good although it makes up for that in a zillion other ways :)

I haven't really used v2 much as I don't get time to make music much these days but it seems like it's moved in a good direction and at that price I think is great value.

I broke down and hit the play. That's pretty rockin'. Second one especially. :tu:

deastman
KVRAF
6832 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:26 pm

Astralp wrote:The strongest feature for me is the ability to switch patterns in real-time via midi notes. To spend 10 minutes jamming a few patterns and then play them as an instrument is very unique, I can't think of any other software or hardware that does it so easily. Not trying to promote anything but these are a couple of old tracks I did using Geist 1 years ago which demonstrates what I'm talking about. All the Drums and Vocal Bits are done in a single Geist and triggered as I described:

https://soundcloud.com/astralp/seqs-love-me-do

https://soundcloud.com/astralp/seqs-yeh

No loops used, just drum hits and various dialogue. I've always had a thing for chopping vocals and Geist is as easy as it gets, even the Octatrack isn't as good although it makes up for that in a zillion other ways :)

I haven't really used v2 much as I don't get time to make music much these days but it seems like it's moved in a good direction and at that price I think is great value.
Have you heard of Ableton Live? Bitwig Studio? They’re pretty good at triggering sequences too! ;)

In truth, I rarely use Geist 2 because Ableton with Push 2 offers most of the same capabilities as part of the DAW, rather than being a second DAW hosted as a plugin. The Simpler slicing to drum pads workflow is effortless.

Once in a while, I still like to switch over to Geist just for a change of pace, and for fun with the probability triggers and modulation. I do the same with my Elektron boxes. A different workflow will usually yield different results.
Incomplete list of my gear: 110V AC to 12V DC 1.5A power supply (+ tip)

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Michael L
KVRAF
2436 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:44 pm

deastman wrote:A different workflow will usually yield different results.
+1. This is exactly how I evaluate if a plugin is a good fit for me (Geist not). It's so subjective and not always related to 'features.'

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Astralp
KVRAF
1642 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:56 am

deastman wrote: Have you heard of Ableton Live? Bitwig Studio? They’re pretty good at triggering sequences too! ;)
haha, I never got on with Live but absolutely love Bitwig, but that's very different to what Geist does in terms of creative process and control, yes you can switch between Scenes but Geist is a Midi Instrument which I think is a big difference. Having a Midi part with fine control over the Pattern changes as an instrument I think is unique it is more akin to a Synthesizer. If you record Scene changes in Bitwig to the tracks firstly it records everything (for some bizarre reason which I hope will change), but if you want to make changes to that performance you will have to work on the linear data as you would in any other DAW or Record it again. With Geist open up the Midi Part and move the notes around.

If there is a way to trigger Scenes via a Midi track in Bitwig please let me know as it's pretty much all I can think about lately when not working :)

bundoo
KVRist
139 posts since 9 Jun, 2005

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:10 am

upgrade 100% worth it
great product
they've done a good job with implementing tremor features like variable step length per pad

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14241 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:24 am

plexuss wrote:
wagtunes wrote:[snip...]
So it's not really just a drum machine.
IMHO, no. It's a loop factory.
And for me, I've never once used a loop in it.

For me its a sampler for making my own kits from my own synth sounds.

For me its also a drum machine for when you get tired of overly mechanical and limited drum machines. It's great for creating complex patterns.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14241 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:30 am

deastman wrote:
Have you heard of Ableton Live? Bitwig Studio? They’re pretty good at triggering sequences too! ;)
They are... but if you want to play with complex patterns where different lanes have different lengths then Geist shines. It's also just fun and refreshing

OneOfManyPauls
KVRian
787 posts since 17 Jul, 2016 from Wales, UK

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:11 am

pdxindy wrote:
plexuss wrote:
wagtunes wrote:[snip...]
So it's not really just a drum machine.
IMHO, no. It's a loop factory.
And for me, I've never once used a loop in it.

For me its a sampler for making my own kits from my own synth sounds.

For me its also a drum machine for when you get tired of overly mechanical and limited drum machines. It's great for creating complex patterns.
This video shows how easy it is to do that sampling for drums.

It's as easy for playable synth parts too: you can either record each played note to its own pad, or choose a single pad/sample, put the pads in chromatic mode, and real-time record that into the pattern via midi keyboard. It works just as easily for VSTi's as it does for hardware synths and the samples are stored as .wavs, so usable elsewhere too. Lovely stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuRlbfk7s0c

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