Your thoughts on Geist 2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
mholloway
KVRian
995 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:36 am

Saukar30 wrote:So... after buying Geist amd putting it through the paces to make a song I found an Achilles heel.... polyphony.

Im unsure... but it seems there is no setting to control polyphony & in the manual I dont see what the actual voice limit was.
I found it once in the manual, buried somewhere -- in short, each note lane is monophonic. There are no polyphony options on a per-sequencer-lane basis. You can trigger layered samples of course, but every time a new note is triggered (again, per lane) the previous one is cut off.

It's definitely a limitation!

-M
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

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scott_free
KVRist
145 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:24 pm

The sale is tempting, especially at JRRShop.

I will keep demoing it. I experienced a strange lag (1-2 sec) programming hits in the midi editor when I first opened it in Cubase 9.5, but upon restarting, everything is working as expected. Strange.

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Astralp
KVRAF
1642 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:48 pm

It's fine for me on Win 10 with an nvidia graphics card. What graphics card have you got? Although I wouldn't have thought it would be graphic intensive.

Also not sure if you're aware but there is a beta version linked on the forum which was released just a few weeks ago so would be worth getting.

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jbw
KVRist
247 posts since 31 Oct, 2013

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:07 pm

I've had my eye on Geist 2 for a while now, and the sale price definitely peaked my interest, so much so that I finalle demoed it. My thoughts are:

Solid, but short of spectacular. Doesn't really bring anything new to the table, nor does it make sequencing any easier than most other applications. That being said it does bring a lot to the table, like: Sample layering, polyrhythmic beats, note probability, live mode, song mode, and a nice slew of effects and modulation capabilities.

Not enough to get me to buy though, even at the sale price.

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melomood
KVRist
327 posts since 15 Oct, 2017 from U.S.

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:23 pm

It all started with a neat audio program X-incarn that evolved into a great standalone program called Devine Machine
that did allow you to build entire tracks.It had a vsti version
Then we all waited...and waited...and discussed a possible Devine Machine 2.0 coming at some point
which it was going to do
I know because I was on the fringe of the beta testing for being one of a minority who actually supported and purchased the product(s) since X-incarn
Little did I know they had made the decision to team up with Fxpansion and just f**king ruin it

I still use my copy of Devine Machine tho,and no I didn't check the whole thread to see if somebody already gave a history lesson

This is what I witnessed

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scott_free
KVRist
145 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:27 pm

Astralp wrote:It's fine for me on Win 10 with an nvidia graphics card. What graphics card have you got? Although I wouldn't have thought it would be graphic intensive.

Also not sure if you're aware but there is a beta version linked on the forum which was released just a few weeks ago so would be worth getting.
Thanks for the info about the beta. Whatever the issue was, I do not think it was Geist 2. I started a new project with only Geist 2, and all was good.

mholloway
KVRian
995 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:29 pm

jbw wrote:
Solid, but short of spectacular. Doesn't really bring anything new to the table, nor does it make sequencing any easier than most other applications. .

Just curious, can you name me any other comparable software that offers the "Graphs" functionality? I haven't seen anything that comes even remotely close. The graphs give you far more control than just note probability... they are probably the deepest tool I've found in a drum sequencer for creating complex, dynamic variations to the individual hits inside a pattern. Even Maschine has nothing even remotely similar.

So, if you're saying this doesn't bring anything new to the table, where else are you finding this kind of functionality? Or did you spend enough time with Geist2 to really understand the depth of the Graphs system?

-M
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14251 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:37 pm

mholloway wrote:
Saukar30 wrote:So... after buying Geist amd putting it through the paces to make a song I found an Achilles heel.... polyphony.

Im unsure... but it seems there is no setting to control polyphony & in the manual I dont see what the actual voice limit was.
I found it once in the manual, buried somewhere -- in short, each note lane is monophonic. There are no polyphony options on a per-sequencer-lane basis. You can trigger layered samples of course, but every time a new note is triggered (again, per lane) the previous one is cut off.

It's definitely a limitation!

-M
But since you can add as many lanes as you want... trivial to work around

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14251 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:40 pm

mholloway wrote:
jbw wrote:
Solid, but short of spectacular. Doesn't really bring anything new to the table, nor does it make sequencing any easier than most other applications. .

Just curious, can you name me any other comparable software that offers the "Graphs" functionality? I haven't seen anything that comes even remotely close. The graphs give you far more control than just note probability... they are probably the deepest tool I've found in a drum sequencer for creating complex, dynamic variations to the individual hits inside a pattern. Even Maschine has nothing even remotely similar.

So, if you're saying this doesn't bring anything new to the table, where else are you finding this kind of functionality? Or did you spend enough time with Geist2 to really understand the depth of the Graphs system?

-M
There is also the sampling capability. What other drum machine is so capable and easy to sample your own synth presets?

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jbw
KVRist
247 posts since 31 Oct, 2013

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:58 pm

mholloway wrote:
jbw wrote:
Solid, but short of spectacular. Doesn't really bring anything new to the table, nor does it make sequencing any easier than most other applications. .

Just curious, can you name me any other comparable software that offers the "Graphs" functionality? I haven't seen anything that comes even remotely close. The graphs give you far more control than just note probability... they are probably the deepest tool I've found in a drum sequencer for creating complex, dynamic variations to the individual hits inside a pattern. Even Maschine has nothing even remotely similar.

So, if you're saying this doesn't bring anything new to the table, where else are you finding this kind of functionality? Or did you spend enough time with Geist2 to really understand the depth of the Graphs system?

-M
By "applications" I meant DAWs too, which generally offer automation.

I do not deny all that Geist 2 brings, which is a lot, as it's basically a DAW which you can use in a DAW sort of like Renoise Redux. Still there just wasn't a lot that stood out to me that said, wow I need this. I definitely see how a person could get a lot out of it though.

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plexuss
KVRAF
2369 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:01 pm

So now with Geist I can do triphop. Golly. Knocked this one out in about an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB4FtfLG8T0
Last edited by plexuss on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

tapiodmitriyevich
KVRist
331 posts since 15 Jan, 2017 from 127.0.0.1

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:32 pm

Well triphop, trap, rather snoozy stuff... But can it do Squarepusher? Aaron Spears? :D

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plexuss
KVRAF
2369 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:41 pm

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Well triphop, trap, rather snoozy stuff... But can it do Squarepusher? Aaron Spears? :D
No. I'm just a baby triphop artist at the moment. :)

I don't plan to do triphop. But Geist appears to make certain genres easier to do. I am guessing because similar tools are used in those genres.

Saukar30
KVRian
1047 posts since 2 Mar, 2005

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:41 pm

pdxindy wrote:
mholloway wrote:
Saukar30 wrote:So... after buying Geist amd putting it through the paces to make a song I found an Achilles heel.... polyphony.

Im unsure... but it seems there is no setting to control polyphony & in the manual I dont see what the actual voice limit was.
I found it once in the manual, buried somewhere -- in short, each note lane is monophonic. There are no polyphony options on a per-sequencer-lane basis. You can trigger layered samples of course, but every time a new note is triggered (again, per lane) the previous one is cut off.

It's definitely a limitation!

-M
But since you can add as many lanes as you want... trivial to work around
Thanks. I know its monophonic per lane... but it seems I was running out of voices globally. I had 4 loops going and some drums and all of sudden every now & then 1 or more or the loops would stop playing. That really sucks if thats the case because that either means:

A. Globally there is a really low polyphony in G2.. like maybe 32 notes

B. There are effects that may increase the polyphony for each pad ( I used a lot because I was testing... and I always push things to the limit when I test to see where the limits are).

These are just my assumptions out loud. I couldve just put too many notes in the lane. Ill have to check it out in the morning. I really hope Im wrong though

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Astralp
KVRAF
1642 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Re: Your thoughts on Geist 2

Post Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:37 am

It's a sampler so can be used for whatever music style you want. Although primarily sold as a drum machine due to it's heritage at the end of the day like others have said, it's as close to an Octatrack as you can get in software, in fact they've only just added probability to the OT (thanks Elektron!). The OT has 8 engines the same as Geist, Geist has lanes instead of P-Locking, so there is a different creative method involved but essentially similar capabilities. Nobody would call an Octatrack a drum machine, although it can make a very good one, I actually owned a 2nd one I used just for that purpose for a couple of years. So comparing it to a Drum Machine is a bit irrelevant imo as it's just one of the many things it can do (and do well). It's a sampler with powerful Sequencers and it is a real sampler in that it samples too.

Geist goes a lot further than the OT in terms of the amount of samples you can use due to layering and 64 tracks per engine, on the OT you can have 256 samples in a project and you can use p-locking to access 128 of theme depending on your machine type. It's definitely easier to access them in Geist although p-locking is a method that is fun and yields unintended surprises. But I think that Geist has that exploration type creativity with it's real-time pattern changing, which has the fun and surprise aspect, but you need to set up a few patterns in advance to switch between and a tip is to leave one blank as an off state to switch to (if you are running it in sync mode).

In terms of Geists' complexity, it can be overwhelming at first I guess, but like the Octatrack you don't have to use it all but it's there if needed and as you become more familiar with it. Geist can be used in a very simple way.

I'm rambling a bit (and I've just got up) but my point really was that if you've ever lusted after an Octatrack then this is the same ballpark even though they diverge in their own directions in certain ways. That isn't to say it is an Octatrack replacement because the Octatrack experience is an important part of the whole thing, especially using the sequencer. I think that is also true the other way around though as Geist can do many things that the OT cannot especially in the FX and Modulation department and the pattern switching that I keep banging on about :)

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