Dream soft synth?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
twitewhite
KVRist
62 posts since 8 Mar, 2018

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:56 am

wagtunes wrote:See, here's why I WOULD want a synth that could sound like anything.

Right now, when I do a track, I have to sift through 100 VSTs looking for JUST the right one to do the job that I need done for that particular track. And for songs with 10, 20 or more tracks, I could easily use 10 different VSTs. It gets tiresome looking through all that stuff. With just ONE VST, all I have to do is just pull it up and dial in the sound I want.

That would rid me of so much stuff and make my Cubase load faster since it wouldn't have to read through all those VSTs.

So that's why I'd want just one synth to do it all.
I disagree.

I LIKE the fact that I can't get every sound with a synth. This forces me to think creatively to get as close as possible to the sound I want, which improves my sound sculpting abilities and produces creative sounds that I would never have considered on my own.

Sure, the music in my head is the starting template for what I'm building, but rarely do my tracks ever end up sounding like that. You can call me a bad sound designer if you wish, but I'd rather think of my mistakes as experiments that often produce better results than I had originally thought of.

Also, I think of a synth as an instrument, like a piano or guitar. Both of these instruments are obviously limited in what sounds they can make, and that's part of the fun of playing them, adapting them to fit the music/mood as best as possible, yet still being forced to play around their limitations in creative ways. Synths are already able to generate more types of sounds than any acoustic instrument, to the point that they almost feel "cheap" to use. For this reason, unless I'm writing a purely electronic piece, I try to limit my usage of synths to one per song, and then decide on a synth that sounds fun to use, and then try to use it to do whatever I feel like is needed in the song, whether it's more bass, pads in the background, or a lead solo. Only with rare exceptions will I change synths in the middle of a song, use multiple synth tracks, or write parts that I feel a human couldn't perform live. Perhaps it's just a personal preference, having grown up listening to mostly rock and jazz, but I really feel it sucks the fun out of writing.

And come on, there's no way anyone needs 100 synths (unless by 100 VSTs you've including things that aren't synths, in which case you should organize them in folders to make life easier for you!) Having just a few (one additive/subtractive, one wavetable, one rompler-ish, one analog-sounding) is more than enough to get you close enough to any sound you can imagine. You just have to learn these synths inside-out and think creatively and you can get sounds that you never imagined out of them.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14811 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:11 am

twitewhite wrote:
wagtunes wrote:See, here's why I WOULD want a synth that could sound like anything.

Right now, when I do a track, I have to sift through 100 VSTs looking for JUST the right one to do the job that I need done for that particular track. And for songs with 10, 20 or more tracks, I could easily use 10 different VSTs. It gets tiresome looking through all that stuff. With just ONE VST, all I have to do is just pull it up and dial in the sound I want.

That would rid me of so much stuff and make my Cubase load faster since it wouldn't have to read through all those VSTs.

So that's why I'd want just one synth to do it all.
I disagree.

I LIKE the fact that I can't get every sound with a synth. This forces me to think creatively to get as close as possible to the sound I want, which improves my sound sculpting abilities and produces creative sounds that I would never have considered on my own.

Sure, the music in my head is the starting template for what I'm building, but rarely do my tracks ever end up sounding like that. You can call me a bad sound designer if you wish, but I'd rather think of my mistakes as experiments that often produce better results than I had originally thought of.

Also, I think of a synth as an instrument, like a piano or guitar. Both of these instruments are obviously limited in what sounds they can make, and that's part of the fun of playing them, adapting them to fit the music/mood as best as possible, yet still being forced to play around their limitations in creative ways. Synths are already able to generate more types of sounds than any acoustic instrument, to the point that they almost feel "cheap" to use. For this reason, unless I'm writing a purely electronic piece, I try to limit my usage of synths to one per song, and then decide on a synth that sounds fun to use, and then try to use it to do whatever I feel like is needed in the song, whether it's more bass, pads in the background, or a lead solo. Only with rare exceptions will I change synths in the middle of a song, use multiple synth tracks, or write parts that I feel a human couldn't perform live. Perhaps it's just a personal preference, having grown up listening to mostly rock and jazz, but I really feel it sucks the fun out of writing.

And come on, there's no way anyone needs 100 synths (unless by 100 VSTs you've including things that aren't synths, in which case you should organize them in folders to make life easier for you!) Having just a few (one additive/subtractive, one wavetable, one rompler-ish, one analog-sounding) is more than enough to get you close enough to any sound you can imagine. You just have to learn these synths inside-out and think creatively and you can get sounds that you never imagined out of them.
First of all, I have over 100 synths and/or sound generation things.

A.N.A.
ABSynth 5
ACE
Analog Lab
Analog Laboratory
Aparillo
ArcSyn
ARP 2600 V
Avenger
Battery 4 (D)
Bazille
Blue II
Buchla Easel V
Carbon Electra
Chromaphone 2
CMI V
CRX 4
CS 80
Cyclop
DaHornet
Discovery Pro
Diva
Dune 2
DX7 V
Electra 2
Element
Factory
Falcon
Fathom
FM8
HALion 6
Harmor
Hive
Icarus
ImpOSCar 2
Infinite Pro
Iris 2
Jupiter 8V
KarmaFX Modular
Kontakt 5
Legend
Lucid
Lush 101
M1
Massive
Mini V
Modular V
MODO Bass
Mono Poly
MorphoX
Mpowersynth
Mr Alias Pro
MS 20
M-Tron Pro
MUX Modular
Mystic
Nave
Nemesis
Oberheim SEM
Omnisphere
OP-X Pro II
Oxium
Padshop
Pianoteq
Play VST
Podolski
Poly 6
Poly KB III
PolyM
Prologue
Prophet V
Ragnarok
Rapid
Rayblaster
Reaktor 6
Real Eight
Real Guitar
Real LPC
Real Rick
Real Strat
Repro-1
Retrologue
Revitar
Rez 3
Saurus 2
Scrooo
Serum
Six
Softube Modular
Sonigen Modular
Spector
Spectral
Spire
String Studio
Strum Acoustic
Strum Electric
Sunrizer
Syn'X 2
Synclavier V
Synth1
Synthmaster
Sytrus
TAL Bassline
TAL Elek7ro II
TAL Noisemaker
TAL U No 62
TCM II
TDM 3
The Mangle
Thorn
Tyrell N6
Ultra Analog 2
Vast Vaporizer
VirtualCZ
Wavegenerator
Wavemapper 2
Wavestation
Wiggle
X-WoF
XILS 4
Z3ta+2
Zebra 2

Second of all, what exactly are you disagreeing with? I said "I" would like a synth that does everything. And explained why. you're not in charge of my life and the things that "I" want. You want to do things YOUR way? Great! Power to you. And I respect your right to do things that way. There's nothing to agree or disagree with. This isn't a question of agreeing or disagreeing. We each have our own preferences. I respect yours. Al I ask is that you respect mine.

Sheesh.

AnX
KVRAF
3926 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:29 am

Majority of those do exactly the same stuff, you could cut that list down to 25 very easily, prob much more if really got into each synth.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14811 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:59 am

AnX wrote:Majority of those do exactly the same stuff, you could cut that list down to 25 very easily, prob much more if really got into each synth.
In YOUR opinion. Not mine.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4012 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:17 am

Even when i see just things like all the Minimoog emulations. They all catch the character more or less but still they all offer something special the others don´t have.
My "dream" synth would be simply the mysterious Berlin Modular thing where everything would connect to everything with zero delay feedback in every path.
Of course it should operate in mono, stereo, surround and should offer binaural effects etc.
I bet even if it would exist it would be harder to program and/or use than any major DAW where you just layer your favorite synths and FX while i find it also sound better than any single synth i own (beside P900, Model D, Zeeon and Repro maybe....which are even better if i take the best parts out of them as well).
Otherwise if i´m bored and go trough the stock presets, multis and/or the drum machine designer which comes with Logic f.e., most of the stuff sounds better, more complex but still defined and detailed than most things i heard from Falcon, Omnisphere (without Keyscape at least), Avenger and other workstation like hybrid-synths.
I often find that i achieve things a lot faster with 2-3 simpler synths rather than using something like Falcon (sadly i close to never use it for synthesis).
Beside the analog emulations and modulars with audio rate stuff and some wavetable tools i can´t imagine anything i couldn´t do within Logic f.e. for synthesis...which costs me still less than
1-2 of my plug-ins.
If you create presets for all synths you might need to own a lot. I personally would be much more interested to see more presets and multi-banks which are DAW specific.
I doubt the market would be much smaller than for single plug-ins.
If i could start from zero i would just buy again now maybe Logic, P900 and Repro for mac and Model D and Zeeon for iOS. Everything else would be mainly Kontakt libraries for the acoustic stuff.

AnX
KVRAF
3926 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:21 am

wagtunes wrote:
AnX wrote:Majority of those do exactly the same stuff, you could cut that list down to 25 very easily, prob much more if really got into each synth.
In YOUR opinion. Not mine.
Obviously, i wrote it, its based on my extenensive knowledge of synthesis. No idea what your opinion is based on.

chk071
KVRAF
18860 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:25 am

Each to his like, but, for me, i find that 100 is pretty excessive. I wouldn't nearly be able give all those synth enough time and effort to even scratch the surface. I also disagree with the general statement that your second soundset for a synth will not nearly sell well enough to make it worthwhile. Even without personal experience in that regard, i would deny that. Some sound designers i check frequently did several soundsets for a synth, and it seemed worthwhile, otherwise they most probably wouldn't have done it. Frankly, i can only speak for myself, but... i'd concentrate on a few synths, which REALLY please me, otherwise i wouldn't even have fun working with them, and the final product would be bad. Because i'm convinced that you at least halfways have to like what you are doing, to make it sound good.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14811 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:30 am

AnX wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
AnX wrote:Majority of those do exactly the same stuff, you could cut that list down to 25 very easily, prob much more if really got into each synth.
In YOUR opinion. Not mine.
Obviously, i wrote it, its based on my extenensive knowledge of synthesis. No idea what your opinion is based on.
Doesn't really matter what my opinion is based on. It's the only opinion that matters to ME.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4012 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:39 am

Mmhhh.....i also have my own opinions but i never would say that my own opinion is the only thing which matters. Sorry, but that sounds totally blind sided in any way.
Now i wonder why anyone would be here then....just to spread your own opinion.
I´m thankful if someone´s opinion let me rethink or explore new things.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14811 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:41 am

chk071 wrote:Each to his like, but, for me, i find that 100 is pretty excessive. I wouldn't nearly be able give all those synth enough time and effort to even scratch the surface. I also disagree with the general statement that your second soundset for a synth will not nearly sell well enough to make it worthwhile. Even without personal experience in that regard, i would deny that. Some sound designers i check frequently did several soundsets for a synth, and it seemed worthwhile, otherwise they most probably wouldn't have done it. Frankly, i can only speak for myself, but... i'd concentrate on a few synths, which REALLY please me, otherwise i wouldn't even have fun working with them, and the final product would be bad. Because i'm convinced that you at least halfways have to like what you are doing, to make it sound good.
Well, a lot of it has to do with the fact that I don't seem to be as picky as most people here. Everyone here pretty much knows by now that my only major criteria for a synth is that I can see the GUI and it isn't loaded with bugs. I find something interesting in just about every synth I own. I'm easy to please.

Having said that, I have kind of reached the point where I really don't need anymore synths. I'm sure that's part of the reason why I haven't made one synth purchase this year. I mean there ARE synths that I don't own. So why haven't I bought them? Not all of them have bad GUIs or are buggy. So why don't I own them? Simple. I really have enough stuff. Nothing interests me anymore. That EDM synth that was released on the 20th of this month? Eh, don't need it. I've got enough EDM synths.

But I do use what I have. Because I find something unique in everything, even if it's just a certain preset. Again, I'm really not that picky when it comes to this stuff. But yeah, it's getting tiresome weeding through 100 plus VSTs trying to decide which one to use for a track. So having just ONE that can do anything I can imagine would rid me of a lot of software which in turn does so many things.

1. Less to install when I have to reinstall my OS.

2. More money in my pocket after I sell all the stuff I don't need anymore.

3. More hard drive space for sample libraries.

In fact, with all the money I'd make from selling all my synths, I'd probably go out and get the whole Vienna collection. That has always been a dream of mine.

So yeah, ONE synth to do it all would be an absolute dream come true for me.

chk071
KVRAF
18860 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:46 am

wagtunes wrote:But yeah, it's getting tiresome weeding through 100 plus VSTs trying to decide which one to use for a track.
TBH, i even struggle with that with the few synths i own. What to use for what? Even though i find more and more out about that ever day. :D
wagtunes wrote: So having just ONE that can do anything I can imagine would rid me of a lot of software which in turn does so many things.
TBH, i gave up the illusion to have one synth which makes the others redundant. There is no such thing for me. But, i actually AM quite picky, so, that might also have to do with it.

In your case, the answer might be Zebra 3 though. If you like sound and GUI, of course. It surely will do a lot of things. For me, it probably would be overkill, as i get easily overwhelmed by such complex soft synths.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26759 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:47 am

Fungisonoris wrote:Does any one have a dream soft synth?
reaktor engine integrated into kontakt would be nice. not the be-all and end-all, but it'd go a long way.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14811 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:48 am

Cinebient wrote:Mmhhh.....i also have my own opinions but i never would say that my own opinion is the only thing which matters. Sorry, but that sounds totally blind sided in any way.
Now i wonder why anyone would be here then....just to spread your own opinion.
I´m thankful if someone´s opinion let me rethink or explore new things.
The thing is, my opinion isn't based on a void. It's based on using synths since the late 70s. In spite of what people here think of me, I'm not an inexperienced idiot. I know my way around this stuff. And the more synths I get, the more I realize that they're all just variations in sound and how that sound is created whether it be wavetable or additive or subtractive or whatever. So why not just make one synth that can do anything that is currently available in technology and be done with it?

Of course then there is the issue of the sound engine itself. Each synth's sound engine is different, which is why the Arturia Mini sounds different from the Legend. So you'd have to make this all in one synth with an engine that can also be modified to sound like any engine that's possible.

Is that in itself possible? I don't know. Most likely not. But that would be my dream synth. A synth that can sound like Infinite Pro and then turn around and sound like Mr Alias Pro. They're about as far apart as any two synths can get as far as sound goes. But that's what I want. Both of those in one box. And totally modular.

Will it ever happen? No, of course not.

That's why it's called a dream soft synth.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2015 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:50 am

I always think, there are two ways to look at a synth. One is the controller, the part you touch with your hands. With all these vsts its separate...
Then I need to play a sound with it, either I program it myself, then the plug-in is important. Or I search for it, no matter if I or someone else made it. Then it is completely irrelevant which of the 100+ vsts is creating it.
In Bitwig and I guess other tools exist as well, I can search a preset independent of its plug-in. Then I don't need to care if its done with a single vst or with one out of 100+...
Then the main task is tagging your sounds in the best possible way...
That on plug fits all will never exist, though there are more universal tools than others...
You could create for example Akai VIP presets which just load what you defined before, tag them and just wrap everything in general...

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14811 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Dream soft synth?

Post Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:52 am

chk071 wrote:
wagtunes wrote:But yeah, it's getting tiresome weeding through 100 plus VSTs trying to decide which one to use for a track.
TBH, i even struggle with that with the few synths i own. What to use for what? Even though i find more and more out about that ever day. :D
wagtunes wrote: So having just ONE that can do anything I can imagine would rid me of a lot of software which in turn does so many things.
TBH, i gave up the illusion to have one synth which makes the others redundant. There is no such thing for me. But, i actually AM quite picky, so, that might also have to do with it.

In your case, the answer might be Zebra 3 though. If you like sound and GUI, of course. It surely will do a lot of things. For me, it probably would be overkill, as i get easily overwhelmed by such complex soft synths.
The problem with Zebra (and don't get me wrong, I love the synth) is that it has a sound engine that makes it sound like Zebra. And that's the problem with every synth out there. Its engine makes it sound like every patch is coming from that synth. And some engines are more obvious than others. Tone 2 is probably the biggest offender of all. Every single one of their synths has that plastic EDM sound. Even Saurus 2.

I want a synth that can sound like Electra 2 and also sound like The Legend or anything I can think of.

Zebra can't do that and never will.

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