Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
scotchi
KVRer
24 posts since 1 Apr, 2018 from Berlin, Germany

Post Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:58 pm

Thanks for the kind words.
Is it possible to have velocity sensitivity with only one sample? If this is available, great!
Yes, velocity just affects the (pre-compression) volume of the sample playback. With the compression that means you can also create slightly different dynamics for different velocity levels.
I really like its "POGO" (Pitch Bending) feature for drum samples.
From the video I watched, it looks like that works basically the same as our tuning knob -- our tuning knob allows you to tune the sample up or down by an octave (or anywhere in-between). It doesn't resample, so that means also that playback gets longer or shorter based on where that knob is set.

Dee.P.Tree
KVRist
243 posts since 25 Aug, 2015

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:50 am

I am trying Sitala now. I have few suggestions/feedback/bug reports based on a small test run, if you want to implement/correct.

Sorry, for possible typos, I am writing this through small mobile.

0. First of all, Sitala behaved as stable plugin, doing what it should do perfectly without any problem. No crash in continuous one+ hour. Congratulations for great plugin. :clap: :party:

1. Regarding my earlier post (about a FL Studio Sampler Channel Function), Existing Tuning knob in Sitala is not doing what I suggested. Actually, POGO knob in FL Studio modifies pitch envelope. It interestingly makes sample punchier or softer.

If interested, More details by FL Studio developer here:
https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=127831

2. How to delete already loaded sample in individual pad? It is not very clear. Right clicking on sample slot/pad only gives option to load sample. Am I missing something?

3. Getting out of "Rename..." option (accessible by right clicking sample slot) needs pressing Enter key or clicking on any other sample slot/pad only. Rename function remains active even if we move those big knob paramaters or click on other part of GUI.

Not a big issue. But, workflow killer.

Is it possible to get out of "Rename..." if we click anywhere on GUI or turn knobs?

4. Where do MIDI map presets are stored? Can we have option to save in same folder where Kits are stored?

5. For MIDI Map presets, "Manage Presets..." window shows just one option at bottom of window: " - " (delete)

If we press it, it deletes selected map without confirmation. Sometimes we may delete selected map by mistake.

Please give option of renaming selected midi map also.

6. It seems there is bug in midi mapping.

In piano roll, I have to put note at C3 to play sample mapped to C1.

In other words, samples need to be played by keys two octaves higher than shown mapped key just below the pad (playing D5 key will show as D3 on GUI).

7. "Edit MIDI Map" function remains always active till we again go to menu and again select it (to remove that tick mark).

Just pressing enter or clicking any where on GUI should take us out of midi map editing mode.

8. How to use "Use One Audio Output per Pad"? How can we link each pad to each channel? It is not clear without manual or small text help file.

9. Is it possible to have only vst DLL instead of installer?

10. While editing MIDI map, "S" (solo) can be activated/deactivated, but "M" (mute) can not be. You may keep either both of them changeable or not changeable in midi map edit mode. Not a big issue to functionality, but, may be redundant feature according to existing functionality.

11. Is it possible to add "sample retrigger" function? If we keep pressed a pad, it will keep retriggering the sample according to defined rate linked to host tempo.

Is it too much to ask this feature and still maintain its simplicity?

12. Can you make it possible to have a default start up MIDI map chosen by user (user definable default MIDI map)?

13. If I clear all stored kits from drop down menu using "clear" option, and, then, go to "Mapping Presets" menu option, "General MIDI" shows a small question mark- right side to rext (indicating some error).

If we click it, we get a pop up mentioning as below:

"The kit does not provide general MIDI mappings. You can add them by right clicking on the pads and selecting 'Map General MIDI'"

But, since the kit is cleared and there are no samples in any pad, only option we get after right clicking is: Load Sample

The pop up message has no meaning.

Even if kit is already loaded, there is no option of 'Map General MIDI' in options at right clicking pads.

Loading other two MIDI maps (Chromatic Keys and Only White Keys) works OK in blank kit.

How to auto map samples in pads to general MIDI map?

.......

That's all for now. Sorry for too much text, I could not stop myself writing what all I found.

If you need more clarification on any point, let me know. :hug:

It's more than 1 hour now... writing and testing together. :D

Hope this helps to make this plugin better.

Best of luck. :tu:

User avatar
luzifer
KVRer
26 posts since 18 Apr, 2018 from Berlin

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:48 am

Thank you so much for taking your time!

I see now what you mean with POGO... We hope to resurrect the modulation engine at some point in the future again. The only way to do that at the moment would be to use parameter automations provided by the DAW. It seems tough as FL pitches down to a point where the playback rate almost equals zero.

Dee.P.Tree wrote:2. How to delete already loaded sample in individual pad? It is not very clear. Right clicking on sample slot/pad only gives option to load sample. Am I missing something?
Funny this only came up now. It was a really easy fix. An option to clear a slot will be included in the next release.
Dee.P.Tree wrote:3. Getting out of "Rename..." option (accessible by right clicking sample slot) needs pressing Enter key or clicking on any other sample slot/pad only. Rename function remains active even if we move those big knob paramaters or click on other part of GUI.

Not a big issue. But, workflow killer.
We will try to find a way to make this work more intuitively.

Dee.P.Tree wrote:6. It seems there is bug in midi mapping.

In piano roll, I have to put note at C3 to play sample mapped to C1.

In other words, samples need to be played by keys two octaves higher than shown mapped key just below the pad (playing D5 key will show as D3 on GUI).
May i ask you which DAW you are using. There is no definitive standard about octave numbering in MIDI. It can fluctuate up to two octaves. We do change the labels based on which DAW hosts our plug-in but it seems like we missed that one. Extra points if you can provide version and platform as well :)
Dee.P.Tree wrote:8. How to use "Use One Audio Output per Pad"? How can we link each pad to each channel? It is not clear without manual or small text help file.
We were swinging back and forth on this one. And community opinion about it was split 50-50. So we went for each slot has it's own channel. We might add support for grouping later. The hats example is a quite good argument.
Dee.P.Tree wrote:13. If I clear all stored kits from drop down menu using "clear" option, and, then, go to "Mapping Presets" menu option, "General MIDI" shows a small question mark- right side to rext (indicating some error).

If we click it, we get a pop up mentioning as below:

"The kit does not provide general MIDI mappings. You can add them by right clicking on the pads and selecting 'Map General MIDI'"
I agree wording on this one is too vague. Maybe the grey question-mark should turn into a blue information icon too :) The idea is that GM maps are associated with a kit. I think the menu is only accessible from the standalone.
Dee.P.Tree wrote:We'll research a little on making mappings default loadable. I can image that it might be helpful in a few workflows (and possibly confusing in others).
Thanks again for taking your time, testing and typing all of this on a phone.

User avatar
Drew Lake
KVRist
48 posts since 16 Jul, 2017

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:53 am

Luzifer wrote:
Dee.P.Tree wrote:6. It seems there is bug in midi mapping.

In piano roll, I have to put note at C3 to play sample mapped to C1.

In other words, samples need to be played by keys two octaves higher than shown mapped key just below the pad (playing D5 key will show as D3 on GUI).
May i ask you which DAW you are using. There is no definitive standard about octave numbering in MIDI. It can fluctuate up to two octaves. We do change the labels based on which DAW hosts our plug-in but it seems like we missed that one. Extra points if you can provide version and platform as well :)
It sounds like FL Studio to me where the middle C is C5...

User avatar
scotchi
KVRer
24 posts since 1 Apr, 2018 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:10 am

Hi folks --

For the last four months we've been quietly banging on the next version of Sitala, and today finally brought out our first beta version. (And possibly our last one since we're hoping the next release will be worthy of the 1.0 label.)

Image

Here's the (free) download.


We spent a few months on it, but compared to previous releases, this one has a lot of goodies in it.

We added a couple of new controls to get it up to 6 total. Pan does, well, exactly what one would expect. Shape is more interesting since with one knob it sweeps across a bunch of different EQ modes -- high pass, sweepable mid-boost, mid-scoop and lowpass, and the interpolation points are decided by our analyzer based on where the dominant frequencies in the sound are. Basically we didn't want the tone knob to effectively be a mute at the extreme ends of its range, and for the mid-sweep to actually sweep across the body of the sound.

And for all of the controls (well, except for volume and pan, because, well, meh) there are now nifty animations of what's actually happening as the filter is applied: gain reduction for shape and compression, plus the resulting waveform, and the frequency graph for tuning and tone (with the EQ curve also shown for tone).

Shape:

Image

Tone:

Image

A handful of people here and in our Facebook beta tester's group also asked for the ability to drop in multiple samples at once, and that also made it into this release.

Oh, and this one also has a Linux version if anyone here cares. It's always worked on Linux, but this go around we finally put together a package for Ubuntu.

Anyway, hope you guys enjoy it. Since right after release is when we start putting together a to-do for the next release, as always, we'd love to have your feedback. :-)

Bojo34
KVRer
5 posts since 14 Dec, 2010

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:33 am

Interesting. Thanks. I suppose you can load other sounds than drum samples?

damstraversaz
KVRian
538 posts since 1 Mar, 2004 from france

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:12 am

great ! congratulations, some very useful features here.

goldglob
KVRian
742 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:48 am

Wow, incredible work.
But I'm not understanding the edit MIDI map thing.
I load classic 08 preset.
I select 'Edit MIDI map'
I select say pad 1. I see the little black corner brackets. OK, I can use midi learn here to assign a different keyboard key to the pad...but right click gives 'Map General MIDI'...what to do here? Is this just info? Selecting a note (drum) doesn't change anything (even after leaving the edit page). And how does this relate to the 'pad/right click/Map General MIDI' when NOT on the edit page.
And back on the edit page, I can select the field below the pad and see [1 C1] (bracketed)....why would I select this?
Can't seem to find a manual or video that explains all this in detail?

User avatar
luzifer
KVRer
26 posts since 18 Apr, 2018 from Berlin

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:23 am

Bojo34 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:33 am
Interesting. Thanks. I suppose you can load other sounds than drum samples?
Sitala comes with two factory kits but you can also load your own samples if you want. Custom sample handling has improved a great deal with this release.

User avatar
luzifer
KVRer
26 posts since 18 Apr, 2018 from Berlin

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:31 am

goldglob wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:48 am
Wow, incredible work.
Thanks!
But I'm not understanding the edit MIDI map thing.
I load classic 08 preset.
I select 'Edit MIDI map'
I select say pad 1. I see the little black corner brackets. OK, I can use midi learn here to assign a different keyboard key to the pad...but right click gives 'Map General MIDI'...what to do here? Is this just info? Selecting a note (drum) doesn't change anything (even after leaving the edit page). And how does this relate to the 'pad/right click/Map General MIDI' when NOT on the edit page.
And back on the edit page, I can select the field below the pad and see [1 C1] (bracketed)....why would I select this?
Can't seem to find a manual or video that explains all this in detail?
I agree that this part isn't quite obvious yet. The idea is that General MIDI mappings are sticky to kits. So e.g. a snare stays a snare and a hi-hat stays a hi-hat no matter what kit you choose and where the pad is located in that kit. The other idea is that a lot of MIDI controllers have a chromatic mapping usually starting at MIDI note 36 but also a fair amount of MIDI kit (think drum pads like Octapad) use General MIDI mapping by default.
It seems that quite a few people get confused by this and we definitely have to find a way to make these concepts more obvious and easier to grasp.

User avatar
scotchi
KVRer
24 posts since 1 Apr, 2018 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:49 am

goldglob wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:48 am
And back on the edit page, I can select the field below the pad and see [1 C1] (bracketed)....why would I select this?
Yeah, those aren't intuitive at all. We added that so that you can choose a MIDI mapping to select pads (i.e. make its controls visible, not play the note). We needed we had a booth at an event here in Berlin and I banged up a ChucK script to turn one of my MIDI controllers into a groovebox with Sitala. ;-)

And Lucijan's right -- I think for the next release it's becoming clear that we need to revisit how we approach MIDI and try to pull everything together somehow.

goldglob
KVRian
742 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:03 am

scotchi wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:49 am
goldglob wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:48 am
And back on the edit page, I can select the field below the pad and see [1 C1] (bracketed)....why would I select this?
Yeah, those aren't intuitive at all. We added that so that you can choose a MIDI mapping to select pads (i.e. make its controls visible, not play the note). We needed we had a booth at an event here in Berlin and I banged up a ChucK script to turn one of my MIDI controllers into a groovebox with Sitala. ;-)

And Lucijan's right -- I think for the next release it's becoming clear that we need to revisit how we approach MIDI and try to pull everything together somehow.
OK, understand now...can select any drum and adjust its settings as say a MIDI groove is playing without actually triggering extraneous notes...great.

goldglob
KVRian
742 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:55 am

luzifer wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:31 am
goldglob wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:48 am
Wow, incredible work.
Thanks!
But I'm not understanding the edit MIDI map thing.
I load classic 08 preset.
I select 'Edit MIDI map'
I select say pad 1. I see the little black corner brackets. OK, I can use midi learn here to assign a different keyboard key to the pad...but right click gives 'Map General MIDI'...what to do here? Is this just info? Selecting a note (drum) doesn't change anything (even after leaving the edit page). And how does this relate to the 'pad/right click/Map General MIDI' when NOT on the edit page.
And back on the edit page, I can select the field below the pad and see [1 C1] (bracketed)....why would I select this?
Can't seem to find a manual or video that explains all this in detail?
I agree that this part isn't quite obvious yet. The idea is that General MIDI mappings are sticky to kits. So e.g. a snare stays a snare and a hi-hat stays a hi-hat no matter what kit you choose and where the pad is located in that kit. The other idea is that a lot of MIDI controllers have a chromatic mapping usually starting at MIDI note 36 but also a fair amount of MIDI kit (think drum pads like Octapad) use General MIDI mapping by default.
It seems that quite a few people get confused by this and we definitely have to find a way to make these concepts more obvious and easier to grasp.
Yes, I'm not getting it. Don't know where to start...from 'Edit MIDI map' or just right click pad without being in edit mode? Do I need to select the GM mapping preset first? Does it involve saving a preset? I think the best way to teach the concept would be to explain the goal, then give an example with step by step instructions. Anyway, just trying to help by giving feedback.
Last edited by goldglob on Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

onerob
KVRist
273 posts since 28 Oct, 2014

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:26 am

Nice update. One thing to note: The installer is still not letting you install the plugin "for all users" on Mac. This is normally enabled.

User avatar
luzifer
KVRer
26 posts since 18 Apr, 2018 from Berlin

Re: Sitala drum sampler going into alpha, looking for feedback!

Post Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:49 am

I was able to reproduce the problem now. We'll get it fixed for next release.

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