Best complete bundle for orchestral composing

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

the subject of the thread is asking about the "best" orch library. According to some, VSL is the best..regardless of whether the majority of the world is using Kontakt for the libraries they chose to use. The only Kontakt based orch libs I have are Kirk Hunter, and definitely not the "best". There are some others out there that are highly regarded by many, but there is nothing particularly better about Kontakt. VIPro is still way better then anything made on top of Kontakt. Though I agree with you that many of the kontakt based offerings have more features then the EWQL Play engine provides.
MacPro 5,1 12core x 3.46ghz-96gb MacOS 12.2 (opencore), X32+AES16e-50

Post

The only Kontakt libraries that I have found to be superior to everything else (and I have tried them all) is the Chris Hein solo violin and solo cello. But every other orchestral product for Kontakt that I have listened to isn't as good as EWQL or VSL.

Of course that's just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.

Post

Actually, forget it.

Must. Stay. Strong.

Post

The point about Kontakt is simple - it’s 75% of the orch market (figure plucked out of thin air based on a guess of the number of decent libraries that are available). There are of course great and awful Kontakt libraries, but if we’re discussing all the options then it’s worth remembering the biggest platform. (And K doesn’t require a dongle, not that I want to open that can of worms, but I do appreciate Kontakt stuff when it comes to mobile working in particular for this reason).
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

Post

wagtunes wrote:The only Kontakt libraries that I have found to be superior to everything else (and I have tried them all) is the Chris Hein solo violin and solo cello. But every other orchestral product for Kontakt that I have listened to isn't as good as EWQL or VSL.

Of course that's just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.
How do those compare to the embertone violin and cello? I have those and really like the color modification, gives a good real time adjustment like changing now position. Do the chris hein strings have that kind of mid now adjustment? Looks like the embertone cello is abandoned though, thought it was going to be updated.

Was considering switching to something else and the chris hein ones are 2 for 1 right now at best service.

Post

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
wagtunes wrote:The only Kontakt libraries that I have found to be superior to everything else (and I have tried them all) is the Chris Hein solo violin and solo cello. But every other orchestral product for Kontakt that I have listened to isn't as good as EWQL or VSL.

Of course that's just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.
How do those compare to the embertone violin and cello? I have those and really like the color modification, gives a good real time adjustment like changing now position. Do the chris hein strings have that kind of mid now adjustment? Looks like the embertone cello is abandoned though, thought it was going to be updated.

Was considering switching to something else and the chris hein ones are 2 for 1 right now at best service.
It's been so long since I've played either the Embertone or Friedlander (sp) stuff that I honestly don't remember the differences between them and Chris Hein. All I know is that, to me, Chris Hein's violins and cellos sound closer to real violins and cellos. Maybe it's just my ears. Maybe it's bias. All I know is when I reach for a violin or cello, Chris Hein is who I reach for.

I have tracks I can post that feature these instruments but don't worry, I've tortured this place enough. The can be heard somewhere in my thread of 100 plus tracks at the Music Cafe.

Post

bigcat1969 wrote:Ghastly horrible is a bit unfair, VSCO2 Community is pretty good for free when you are poor (and I know poor and I'm biased), but yeah I have Berlin Inspire & Woodwinds and GPO/Miro/Orchestral Essentials and such can't touch the sound.

If it isn't reviewed here it isn't worth owning for a composer.
https://orchestralvst.wordpress.com/
Nah man some of the best libs for pro work aint on there like vsl and musical sampling. I own like half those libs he lists and he aint talkin bout the probs I know they have. Thats some gassers sample marketing site and got like nothin for "reviews" cept some vague bs. Like they heard a release trailer and thats how they pin it. Its all whatever. I mean what goods a review if they aint gonna use the thing and say whats what? Opinion aggregates aint shit man. No good info there... site aint worth the time...

Post

Yeah those VI-C guys know nothing...
Image

Post

Dewdman42 wrote:Though I agree with you that many of the kontakt based offerings have more features then the EWQL Play engine provides.
I'm curious here - other than keyswitches, what kinds of features?

Post

DrMEM wrote:
Dewdman42 wrote:Though I agree with you that many of the kontakt based offerings have more features then the EWQL Play engine provides.
I'm curious here - other than keyswitches, what kinds of features?
One of Kontakt's best features is background loading. You can load an instrument with zero samples, then as you play it loads on the fly. On a good SSD / NVMe, it's seamless, and even older drives perform better than you'd imagine. On an older drive you might get a few glitches on a first play of your project, but after then its rock solid.

This tends to get people very excited (as I did when I first heard about it) that you can load trillions of instruments that use up virtually no memory. Alas this isn't the case - the instrument itself (inc graphics, scripts etc) can take up a surprisingly large amount of memory - I think every instrument in full LASS 2.5 takes about 6gb for me, without a single sample loaded, but it really is a beast. Nevertheless, RAM is saved and its such an elegant way to keep the footprint, load and save times down. (nb - this trick only works on DFD streaming from disk samples. Anything that needs the samples in memory to work, such as those using the Time Machine Pro engine, need to be fully loaded).

Then there's Kontakt's scripting, which can and does allow for an almost limitless amount of features. To take LASS again as an example, it has something called the ARC, a central control section which enables you to control the timbre, playing qualities like humanisation, divisi control inc intelligent auto-assign etc all from one central hub. By contrast Play is prehistoric.

Both Kontakt (depending on the library) and Play are easier to use than VI Pro, although the latter is very powerful.

Here's an off the top of my head list of some of the quality developers and what engines they support:

Play
East West

VI Pro
VSL

Kontakt
CineSamples, Spitfire Audio, Orchestral Tools, ProjectSam, 8dio, Soundiron, Sonokinetic, AudioBro, Native Instruments, Heavyocity, Embertone, Ilya Efimov, Orange Tree Samples, Sample Modelling, Red Room Audio, Fable Sounds

UVI
UVI, VIR Harmonic

Engine
Best Service, Eduardo Tarilonte

Spitfire Player
Spitfire

(I've doubtless missed some biggies, soz)

Hopefully you'll see why I was saying Kontakt discussion has been sorely missing in this thread... indeed at times its easy to think of Kontakt as being so ubiquitous it's the only game in town. It isn't of course, but it is easy to see why it is so popular. Its an excellent host.

With the exception of the new Spitfire engine, I use all of these players. I prefer some to others, but I wouldn't not buy any library based solely on its engine. UVI Workstation works fine for me for the extraordinary VIR Harmonic Bohemian series for example. Engine makes me slightly grumpy because I've had a lot of authorisation issues with it, but still it wouldn't put me off entirely if someone released something really good for it.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

Post

Much of NI's appeal lies outside true high end orchestral sampling, but Kontakt can be had for $125 if you are clever about it and time it right, but it unlocks a whole world for more entry level or even mid level composers. It includes an aging but serviceable set of entry level instruments of most acoustic type genres. If you upgrade to Komplete or Komplete Ultimate, you get a vast collection of instruments, synths and FX at a very low price per. This is a better value if you work outside the strict confines of pure orchestral composition. The recent Essentials and Pianos, while not without issues, adds some value here.

There are many indy type developers (and as Guy noted, many big names) that create for Kontakt, as it comes with a scripting language that is very powerful if somewhat difficult for those of us who are coding challenged, and has an open architecture. It is the only major Engine that I'm aware of where you can just create instruments and release them without an license or even the knowledge of the company that owns the engine. I'm pretty sure NI doesn't even know I exist. It is sort of like Unity for music. If you are looking for something esoteric to add to your mix you are more likely to find it in the nooks and corners of Kontakt libraries than in the eco-systems of the other engines because of this.

There are quite a few free instruments once you have Kontakt full with Red Room's orchestra being significant
https://freedigitalinstruments.wordpres ... struments/

Elsewhere one doesn't have to have to argue too much to point out the quality of Spitfire, OT, CSS and the like, but let me merely say that one or two composers seem to like them and they are predominately available on Kontakt though often in the free player version as pointed out by a much better composer than I.
Image

Post

Elektronisch wrote:
jancivil wrote:
Elektronisch wrote: as some one pointed in this thread, 10 times bigger price wount make the quality 10 times higher.
When did this 10 times bigger price become a fact?
It was a hyperbole to make a point. Sure its not a 10 times bigger, but you get the point :) im not going to argue about the rest :)
How much experience do you bring to this discussion? You parroted a statement by a person who prefaced it with saying how glad he was not to be interested in this whole type of thing. Now I'm supposed to get some clear point. :roll:

Post

For really basic use, the Spitfire Labs is the easiest interface in the world. Here it works nicely although I don't have much use for their reverb; which does eat some CPU so as a late addition to a project it had to be rendered and got rid of.

I really don't get how the Vienna Instrument is harder than Kontakt. You have [potentially] the dimensions of cells - articulations, which like everything else on the planet are called patches - in the middle; this can be one to some insane amount and are constructed as horizontal and then if need be vertical stacking of more horizontal rows (or strictly as vertical!); in the middle of the UI.
Then that's a matrix, which appears at the left. Then matrices, also keyswitchable may form a 'preset'. If I can do it ANYONE except a literal imbecile can. Then there are advanced features which, rather_than_needing to get under the hood like with Kontakt, are plain to see. On the right; time stretching, determining A/B for that switching where available, cutting into samples, poly/mono behavior as global, the slot xfade, etc. For advanced use of samples, it is actually easier to see which one would tend to take as easier to work with.

In the beginning, I had to RTFM to know from the dimensions, the very basics. So I'm not that facking clever, apparently.

I use Kontakt quite heavily. I use the excellent scripting of vendors like Sonic Couture, and use their instruments typically in creative sound design. But as to 'humanization', VI Pro has that completely sussed. Timbre control in LASS; that's interesting. Is this filtering? It's not like I'm going to pay that kind of money, I don't love the sound.
(full disclosure, the hard sound of a more classical approach is not my thing)
That's from experience, I've used it at another's setup. It has some issues, additionally but I don't want to heavily slam it, it's been gone over more than once at this forum. I will only say I'd rather incorporate human error in a humanization routine than have it flagrant and unavoidable. BTW the viola section in KFL (VSL) is out of tune like that.

AFAICT VSL did not do divisi at all before the Dimension series. That is a definite selling point for a LASS.

The only engine I would stay away from per se, through itself is PLAY. But I cannot support their ways at all anyway. It's about ethics for me, before we get into the serious lamosity of that engine.

Oh: background loading. VSL does it flawlessly. All the cells can be disabled (and instantly re-enabled), additionally. It can be set to where they're all disabled upon load. In VE Pro any channel can be frozen. However Host Automation in a Kontakt instrument once frozen is flaky, it may not come back, so here it's time to save the project or instance separately.

Post

Well, it seems I'm running into another problem now that I didn't see coming.

The Euro to Dollar conversion is going in the wrong direction for US customers. Everything that I want costs $50 more in total than it did last time I checked.

Right now, $50 might as well be $500. As it is I'm scrambling to try to pay for this stuff. This complication I don't need.

So what do I do now? Do I wait to see if the Euro goes down? Do I buy now before things get worse? I'm not a financial analyst expert. I haven't spent my life doing FOREX.

Why can't they just make a fixed dollar amount for US customers like most other places?

Post

jancivil wrote:this is def more advanced shopping than I've ever done
Let's consider the Forex forecast: https://www.dailyfx.com/eur-usd
d o n 't
w a n t
m o r e

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”