KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5507 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from either Northern Idaho or Southern Canada, still trying to figure out which

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:40 am

Oh, I haven't changed my tune about Kontakts crappy GUI. It's crap on a 2k monitor and an HD monitor and a VGA monitor :P
The trick is to realize there is no spoon. That's when you'll know you have been truly swindled.

User avatar
kovacs
KVRAF
2399 posts since 5 Dec, 2003 from Harlan's World

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:50 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:51 pm
Technological advancements are fine, but if the software cannot follow at the same speed, it's not exactly logical. Then it ends up being tech advancement for the sake of tech advancement and not much else ...
There is however the concept of "technology trends" which dictates the direction things are moving in. There can be no doubt that over the past few decades, monitors are trending towards larger sizes and higher resolutions. What anyone thinks about that is their own business, but being able to deliver upon the promise of higher resolutions should be a natural ambition of any software company.

I am an NI fanboy. I love creative interfaces such as Form and Rounds. But I'm closing in on 50 years and my eyesight is not what it used to be. Kontakt is becoming more difficult to "read" for me for every year that passes. So scalable GUI and a focus on readability and usability is something I truly expect from NI.

Hey, NI even has focus on support for blind people:
https://blog.native-instruments.com/how ... musicians/

EDIT: And @evildragon, I *loved* that interview you linked to. Very impressive stuff you are working on.
Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
16919 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:03 am

As I mentioned, a better GUI for Kontakt will happen eventually, but with the way codebase's dependencies can be in an almost 20 years old project, it will take a lot of time before that happens. Could it have happened during K5 times? Perhaps, but we got a lot more features instead, which in turn made it possible to have better libraries in the end - which as a developer makes me really happy. Sure, Kontakt can be tedious to use (and us developers know it better than users ;)), but I've already stated my stance multiple times and I'm not about to repeat myself.

Rivanni
KVRer
3 posts since 4 Feb, 2017

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:55 am

It's about a resizeable GUI, not a better GUI's. No need to change the existing codebase and add new functionality of Kontakt. Just the option to set the display size. I like Kontakt, Massive and FM8 but hate to squint my eyes every time I use those plug-ins.

companies can add a resizing option without changing (the functionality of) the plug-in itself, so why not NI?

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
16919 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:10 am

It would have been done by now already if it were that easy. Or even if it weren't that easy. It should be obvious that it's a slippery slope of prioritization of features vs refactoring vs everything else.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
13397 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:17 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:10 am
It would have been done by now already if it were that easy. Or even if it weren't that easy. It should be obvious that it's a slippery slope of prioritization of features vs refactoring vs everything else.
Unfortunately, people who are not programmers have no idea what's involved in making changes to code.

I'll leave it at that.

(Note: I was a programmer for 20 years so I know what I'm talking about)

iPlogger
KVRian
685 posts since 27 Oct, 2011 from Pacific Northwest

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:51 am

I'm a software dev working on 30+ year old codebase and have had a few requests for this. Without a re-write of our main application framework, it is not easy to make the app/dialogs ready for high resolution monitors. We recognize it's a problem and something we'd like to resolve, but right now, it's too big a task for our small team.

In older code, when a user resizes, you need to write specific code to handle each individual component on the screen to move or increase in width. You need to calculate the correct ratios, or movement you want to happen. And this needs to be written for each window/dialog separately. There is also the problem of graphics where resizing can cause a flicker, so you may need to write special graphics buffering code to handle flickering as well. More modern languages, like C# (which we also use) has stuff like this built in using what is called an 'anchor'. Modern languages have really done a great a job of removing a bunch of the tedious work we did in the 90's.

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
16919 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:16 am

...and there you have it.

User avatar
dangayle
KVRian
733 posts since 30 Mar, 2014

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:11 pm

As a programmer, this is why your presentation code should be separate from your application code. It's never a problem at the time, but the long term maintenance is where it comes back to bite you in the behind.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
13397 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:34 pm

dangayle wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:11 pm
As a programmer, this is why your presentation code should be separate from your application code. It's never a problem at the time, but the long term maintenance is where it comes back to bite you in the behind.
Regardless of what should be, this is why this isn't as easy a fix as people want to believe.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2414 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:23 pm

...anyway... does anyone have Komplete 12 yet? Curious to hear reports on Kontakt 6 in particular.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.afterschoolvideoclub.com/
W10 Pro Creators Edition, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2018 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 9
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
16919 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:33 pm

dangayle wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:11 pm
As a programmer, this is why your presentation code should be separate from your application code. It's never a problem at the time, but the long term maintenance is where it comes back to bite you in the behind.
It is like that (engine is always separate from GUI) but that's not where the problem lies.

User avatar
thejonsolo
KVRAF
1931 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Charleston, SC

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:42 pm

Kontakt 6 is fine. Nothing noticeably different than 5. I would have to say that we need to see more of the "under the hood" changes in action to be able to say more. Performance seems the same to me.

User avatar
hivkorn
KVRAF
2755 posts since 6 Sep, 2007 from France

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:51 pm

I know a few language : assembler,html,basic,lua and i m able to reverse the code from a few other language...i confirm resizing could be a HUGE work if the code is old and not optimised to this task...

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
16919 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:03 pm

20 years ago GUI scalability wasn't a thing in anyone's heads. We were happy to rock 1600x1200, and more often less than that. :P

Of course, that's no justification not to do anything about it. But sum everything mentioned so far and then do the effort vs payoff equation from NI's position and see what you come up with.

Return to “Instruments”