KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
iPlogger
KVRian
685 posts since 27 Oct, 2011 from Pacific Northwest

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:48 pm

By the way, I in no way want to speak for NI, nor do I know what language or class structure they are using. I just want to give my perspective on why this kind of stuff isn't easy. In general, for many years, we focused on how things look at 1024x768 and built/designed for that.

> Of course, that's no justification not to do anything about it.

So true, and an important point. It's quite possible NI does want to resolve the issue, but... (the next point)

> then do the effort vs payoff equation from NI's position and see what you come up with.

I agree. That's what it comes down to.

Anyway, I'm brand new to NI (since summer), so haven't had the history with them so many of you have had. I can understand wanting larger GUI/fonts. I now have two pairs of glasses for distance and closeup, which definitely helps.

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digitalboytn
KVRian
1197 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:11 pm

iPlogger wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:48 pm
Anyway, I'm brand new to NI (since summer), so haven't had the history with them so many of you have had. I can understand wanting larger GUI/fonts. I now have two pairs of glasses for distance and closeup, which definitely helps.
That's the answer !

NI should supply a pair of glasses with every product they sell with Kompletely kool frames and different filters built in - including the one from Monark -to make fine adjustments to the lenses...

With special add ons from the NI shop :wink:

They could even do a pre-release HD video featuring a spikey ball,but with absolutely zero information...

But seriously...

As Evil Dragon has alluded to,many of the NI products are really at "end of life",but they keep tacking on bits and pieces and patching a few things to keep the customers interested and satisfied until they bite the bullet and come up with some new products with completely new code...

Personally I feel that the wavetable BS in Kontakt is a bit of a gimmick just to keep the old format plodding along a little bit longer...

I still love FM8 and I've also come to really appreciate Absynth and Massive,so it's a shame that they have become abandonware,because they really are great synths...

Even slightly larger GUI's and better editing windows for Absynth and FM8 would have been nice :wink:

But alas,in these days when corporate decisions are made by the bean counters,the focus is on profits rather than the pursuit of more altruistic ideals :wink:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

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dangayle
KVRian
727 posts since 30 Mar, 2014

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:24 pm

digitalboytn wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:11 pm
NI should supply a pair of glasses with every product they sell with Kompletely kool frames and different filters built in - including the one from Monark -to make fine adjustments to the lenses...
With special add ons from the NI shop :wink:
I still roll around with this microfiber cleaning cloth they included in Komplete 7, which, by the way, is the best eyeglass cleaner I have ever owned 30+ years. How I have managed to not lose it is beyond me.

Image

chk071
KVRAF
17022 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:28 pm

Komplete Eyesight™ ;)

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digitalboytn
KVRian
1197 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:29 pm

I still have a few of those black micro fiber cloths and the blue lanyards that they included a while back...

That was before the corporate bean counters and the private equity BS kicked in :wink:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

liquidsound
KVRAF
2931 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:09 pm

Well at least we know now that Massive is not longer abandonware.
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
16914 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:55 pm

digitalboytn wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:11 pm
Personally I feel that the wavetable BS in Kontakt is a bit of a gimmick just to keep the old format plodding along a little bit longer...

Actually, it's not! You might've thought it's just a ported Massive oscillator, but it's in fact entirely new DSP. It might actually be closer to what we could expect from Massive X.

For example, in Massive, you only have these phase wrapping modes: Spectrum, Bend+, Bend-, Bend+/-, Formant.

In Kontakt 6 wavetable module, you have these phase wrapping modes: Linear, Sync 1, Sync 2, Sync 3, Bend+, Bend-, Bend+/-, PWM, Asym+, Asym-, Asym+/-, Flip, Mirror, Quantize.

Add four quality modes to that, phase randomization feature (great for unison sounds), and there's a lot of fun packed into that "gimmicky" addition...

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digitalboytn
KVRian
1197 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:07 pm

But NI know that they have to bite the bullet and write some new code...

Kontakt and Reaktor seem to be their main focus and that framework is a little antiquated...

Reaktor needs to be multi core for a start...

I don't write code and I'm not a third party contributer....

Just a wandering,wondering end user minstral :wink:

At least it seems with Massive X that the bean counters have given the programmers a budget to write some fresh code....

You can only recycle the old food so much until it starts to taste a little stale :party:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
16914 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:10 pm

Reaktor being multicore is probably not happening due to the way it works internally. There's no way it could be parallelized even at voice level, because in primary, voices can interact, and in Core, everything is happening concurrently, so that is also a nope. Wellllll, perhaps thread handling MIGHT be possible in Core but that would need to be done by the builder, which is complicated shit. So probably not gonna have many takers.

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ATS
KVRAF
5802 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:19 pm

so this is what I am gathering. NI products are too old to bring up to date? Like the Dad who used to be cool but will never be again no matter how hard he tries.
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
16914 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:47 pm

They're too old to bring them up to date in a short time period. It's not impossible to do it, but it needs to be done with extreme care and a lot effort in order not to break anything else.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2414 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:59 am

The more this conversation goes on (and round in endless circles), the more I wonder if Massive X isn't the key you know. The expectation at this point is that Massive X won't in any way be compatible with old Massive patches. NI (as far as I understand it) started from scratch, borrowing little but the name and - I presume - some of the core architecture concepts, that would make it feel a bit like Massive. Crucially, I guess all this means that they never had to deal with the old codebase.

So never mind Kontakt 6, surely its time to start building Kontakt X. No backwards compatibility. Keep Kontakt going for legacy - OS updates etc for a decade. Produce developer tools to aid porting old libraries to a new format. Hopefully 10 years is enough time for developers to switch their libraries to the new format, and which point NI could finally turn off support for Kontakt.
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ATS
KVRAF
5802 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:00 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:47 pm
They're too old to bring them up to date in a short time period. It's not impossible to do it, but it needs to be done with extreme care and a lot effort in order not to break anything else.
Well I'm actually relieved to hear that. :pray:
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls ~ Pablo Picasso

andrew71
KVRist
451 posts since 16 Jun, 2003

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:16 am

So I'm now a user of Komplete 12 Ultimate. I would have thought that the upgrade from K12U to K12UCE would be cheaper, but no, it's still £479.

Not that I want to do it, but I was curious to see if it would be less...

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digitalboytn
KVRian
1197 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: KOMPLETE 12 & 12 ULTIMATE Leak! Massive X Synthesizer, Kontakt 6...

Post Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:57 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:59 am
The more this conversation goes on (and round in endless circles), the more I wonder if Massive X isn't the key you know. The expectation at this point is that Massive X won't in any way be compatible with old Massive patches. NI (as far as I understand it) started from scratch, borrowing little but the name and - I presume - some of the core architecture concepts, that would make it feel a bit like Massive. Crucially, I guess all this means that they never had to deal with the old codebase.

So never mind Kontakt 6, surely its time to start building Kontakt X. No backwards compatibility. Keep Kontakt going for legacy - OS updates etc for a decade. Produce developer tools to aid porting old libraries to a new format. Hopefully 10 years is enough time for developers to switch their libraries to the new format, and which point NI could finally turn off support for Kontakt.
:tu:

This is what I was alluding to when I said that the programmers can write some new code...

Just think about it...

Massive X will be the first standalone synth that NI has released since Massive and that was in 2007 !

Everything else released has been plugged into Kontakt or Reaktor and for financial reasons,that is their point of focus,but that is also where the problem lies...

The framework code for Kontakt and Reaktor is antiquated and ED said to overhaul it is a Massive task....pun intended...

I agree that at some stage there needs to be a line drawn in the sand to mark a new beginning,but that's going to take a lot of balls :party:

Bigger kahunas than that spikey ball they released as a Massive X preview...

If they were to release more standalone synths,they wouldn't have the dilemma they are facing now,but the bean counters who run the show are interested in profits above anything else...

That's the problem when the suits run the show :wink:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

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