Layering and load distribution

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29804 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:16 am

What's the best way to layer plugin instruments in a DAW to get best use from multiple cores? For example in Bitwig now there is an instrument selector but I presume since it's per track that all the plugins loaded would still be using the same core? Studio One also has a nice device for combining and layering plugins. I don't know if any host distributes load by plugin though, usually it's by track. If that's the case would it make sense for layers be built up that span multiple tracks and if so how to ensure they all use the same midi input? Usually I just use Kore or Freestyle for layering as they can combine multiple plugins in a single gui but for CPU hungry instruments this is not viable as that would just use one core - I don't think these use any internal load distribution across cores, not sure that would even be realistic to expect (do any subhosts manage to pull that off?).

Cinebient
KVRAF
3653 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:26 am

aMUSEd wrote:What's the best way to layer plugin instruments in a DAW to get best use from multiple cores? For example in Bitwig now there is an instrument selector but I presume since it's per track that all the plugins loaded would still be using the same core? Studio One also has a nice device for combining and layering plugins. I don't know if any host distributes load by plugin though, usually it's by track. If that's the case would it make sense for layers be built up that span multiple tracks and if so how to ensure they all use the same midi input? Usually I just use Kore for layering as it can combine multiple plugins in a single gui but for CPU hungry instruments this is not viable as that would just use one core.
Not sure really but stacked tracks in Logic works really great for me and i love to layer a lot stuff and then play it as one instrument.

Lotuzia
KVRAF
9727 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:26 am

In Cubase I simply record arm 2 or more tracks, then play the part. (Though it's usually much more organic and alive to overdub the second part).
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29804 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:32 am

aMUSEd wrote: (do any subhosts manage to pull that off?).
Actually that's an interesting question in its own right, now I think of it I seem to remember Bidule being able to do some core distribution but not sure how it works, per module presumably but does that include per third party plugin? Would like to know if more modern subhosts like Mux or Freestyle can do the same.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29804 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:32 am

Cinebient wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:What's the best way to layer plugin instruments in a DAW to get best use from multiple cores? For example in Bitwig now there is an instrument selector but I presume since it's per track that all the plugins loaded would still be using the same core? Studio One also has a nice device for combining and layering plugins. I don't know if any host distributes load by plugin though, usually it's by track. If that's the case would it make sense for layers be built up that span multiple tracks and if so how to ensure they all use the same midi input? Usually I just use Kore for layering as it can combine multiple plugins in a single gui but for CPU hungry instruments this is not viable as that would just use one core.
Not sure really but stacked tracks in Logic works really great for me and i love to layer a lot stuff and then play it as one instrument.
Not tried this, so this is for realtime playing right? All using the same midi in?

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29804 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:55 am

Oh well ruled out Mux.

Cinebient
KVRAF
3653 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:02 am

aMUSEd wrote:
Cinebient wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:What's the best way to layer plugin instruments in a DAW to get best use from multiple cores? For example in Bitwig now there is an instrument selector but I presume since it's per track that all the plugins loaded would still be using the same core? Studio One also has a nice device for combining and layering plugins. I don't know if any host distributes load by plugin though, usually it's by track. If that's the case would it make sense for layers be built up that span multiple tracks and if so how to ensure they all use the same midi input? Usually I just use Kore for layering as it can combine multiple plugins in a single gui but for CPU hungry instruments this is not viable as that would just use one core.
Not sure really but stacked tracks in Logic works really great for me and i love to layer a lot stuff and then play it as one instrument.
Not tried this, so this is for realtime playing right? All using the same midi in?
Yes. I spend several months to put a lot of these multi stacked instruments together.
It´s easy to f.e. run 20 instances of Zebra with each track has it´s own midi FX, FX etc. running and i just trigger them all via one midi input live.
I prefer it often over playing several tracks one by one since i set them up that that it works as one instrument. A bit like a synth like Dune 2 on steroids.
Also it´s nice to just save and recall such a preset in a few seconds and you can hide all the "sub" tracks in one midi track.
I really like to combine synths and sample libraries this way.

mutools
KVRAF
9566 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:01 am

aMUSEd wrote:Oh well ruled out Mux.
Why? Because Mux 7.7 does not yet support multi-core within a single plugin instance? As mentioned on the MuTools forum that may change in a future release.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29804 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:04 am

mutools wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Oh well ruled out Mux.
Why? Because Mux 7.7 does not yet support multi-core within a single plugin instance? As mentioned on the MuTools forum that may change in a future release.
Sorry, don't take that the wrong way, it wasn't meant as a criticism, I just meant in relation to that single question, if that changes in future that will be great. Currently it looks possible that no sub host plugins currently support multi core distribution of plugin loads but considering the technical challenges that's not really surprising.

mutools
KVRAF
9566 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:38 am

To avoid confusion: I didn't take it the wrong way, i just asked the question in a relaxed objective way. (a pity that raw text doesn't include intonation) I do understand that multi-core support within a single MUX plugin instance could be very useful, that's why i added it on the wishlist.
Thx aMUSEd.
Last edited by mutools on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26226 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:52 am

aMUSEd wrote:Currently it looks possible that no sub host plugins currently support multi core distribution of plugin loads
Its not automatic, but Bidule lets you assign plugins to a specific core yourself.
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29804 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:53 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Currently it looks possible that no sub host plugins currently support multi core distribution of plugin loads
Its not automatic, but Bidule lets you assign plugins to a specific core yourself.
Yeah I can see that option in the standalone but not in the plugin

Mutant
KVRAF
3344 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Poland

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:18 pm

In REAPER i just make a new track and put another synth instance there, then split the number of voices between them.
And it uses more than 1 core even if the plugin doesn't support that.
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jancivil
KVRAF
15796 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:58 pm

aMUSEd wrote:What's the best way to layer plugin instruments in a DAW to get best use from multiple cores?
Use VE Pro and assign cores to instances directly. So if there are instruments, or FX, which can be determined to use more CPU, you make an instance (more than one instance in a 'server project') with those and assign more cores to that. This is simpler than what I'm seeing, and I know it works.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29804 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Layering and load distribution

Post Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:23 am

Yeah VE Pro has always looked interesting, but also comparatively expensive and yet another tool to learn (although I'm sure it's not complicated).

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