KVR Audio

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:46 am

I buy jazz and fusion music but that doesn't make me a virtuoso. Yamaha buying out Steinberg doesn't make them 'cutting edge'.

izonin · Post by **izonin** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:59 am

The same reason Access don't make plugins. Steinberg products use a hardware key, but few people would buy an ANX1 emu that requires a dongle.

bbtr · Post by **bbtr** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:17 am

Aloysius wrote:I buy jazz and fusion music but that doesn't make me a virtuoso. Yamaha buying out Steinberg doesn't make them 'cutting edge'.

When you are saying Steinberg, you mean Yamaha. Business is about ownership and about streamlining work tasks/processes to get them done. For 13 years, Yamaha has been releasing audio software under the 'Steinberg' label, brand, word or whatever. This includes VST2 and 3 SDKs, Nuendo, Cubase, Wavelab and many instruments and effects. Yes, Yamaha IS DEVELOPING virtual instruments! Why is this so hard to understand?

Richard_Synapse · Post by **Richard_Synapse** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:42 am

lastmessiah wrote:Seems like it would be a big market for them.

Not exactly. Yamaha makes several billions/year, the virtual instrument market is pretty much irrelevant for them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Corporation

It's more like the opposite, for a small software developer it would be a huge market starting to build pianos

Richard

low_low · Post by **low_low** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:14 am

The simple truth is, none of the "creative" markets are really that big, I mean purely creative not like hammers to fix your house. Video editing, music creation, 3d modeling, animation, etc, it SEEMS like everyone is doing it because the product is easy to duplicate and it has such a wide reach, .. but in the big scheme of things most of it is very technical and there are very few people buying VST's, etc, and FAR FEWER actually using them to make money.

Just look at videos on Youtube, Cubase 9 promo video has about 250,000 views, reviews about 100,000, a VST review might have 10,000 views .... Led Zepplin's Black Dog 67,000,000 views, Depeche Mode's Personal Jesus 73,000,000 views, Lady Gaga's Bad Religion 951,000,000 views. For everyone 1 person that watched the Cubase 9 promo video from Steinberg, 3800 people watched Bad Religion.

Most people are eaters.

Dullee · Post by **Dullee** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:29 am

I don't think that's what OP meant.

Not like software market is too big for Yamaha, no.

More like it'd be a great opportunity to kick Arturia in the ass and top their CS-80 V and DX7 V offerings with Yamaha's own emulations and seize the throne.

Which is not necessarily true, since Korg's and Roland's soft synths are not "the best" and "the ultimate" reincarnations.

I bet, if Synapse or u-he take on Japanese synths, the originals wouldn't stand a chance, software, of course.

But I just don't think Yamaha give any flying rats tits about any of this.

They even can't be bothered to re-lauch HW version of CS-80, despite all the late nostalgia, Bladerunner thing and stuff.

They just love their Montage thing too much and that's about it.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:37 am

Richard_Synapse wrote:
lastmessiah wrote:Seems like it would be a big market for them.
Not exactly. Yamaha makes several billions/year, the virtual instrument market is pretty much irrelevant for them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Corporation

It's more like the opposite, for a small software developer it would be a huge market starting to build pianos

Richard

Simple +1

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:40 am

Aloysius wrote:I buy jazz and fusion music but that doesn't make me a virtuoso. Yamaha buying out Steinberg doesn't make them 'cutting edge'.

No but the CS-80, Dx-7, EX-5, Motif, might....

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:44 am

bbtr wrote:
Aloysius wrote:I buy jazz and fusion music but that doesn't make me a virtuoso. Yamaha buying out Steinberg doesn't make them 'cutting edge'.
When you are saying Steinberg, you mean Yamaha. Blah, blah, blah ...

Yamaha acquired German audio software manufacturers Steinberg in January 2005, from Pinnacle Systems. Why is this so hard to understand?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:33 am

Dullee wrote:since Korg's and Roland's soft synths are not "the best" and "the ultimate" reincarnations.

Roland's are damn spot on (even confirmed by Urs somewhere). Korg's M1 and Wavestation are also spot on (and go as far as ultimate as possible, containing all the ROM expansion cards and much increased polyphony compared to the originals).

bbtr · Post by **bbtr** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:44 am

Aloysius wrote:
bbtr wrote:
Aloysius wrote:I buy jazz and fusion music but that doesn't make me a virtuoso. Yamaha buying out Steinberg doesn't make them 'cutting edge'.
When you are saying Steinberg, you mean Yamaha. Blah, blah, blah ...
Yamaha acquired German audio software manufacturers Steinberg in January 2005, from Pinnacle Systems. Why is this so hard to understand?

And since then, this is a Yamaha brand and everything released under this brand belongs to Yamaha. And was made possible by Yamaha. Because they they gave the order to be made by their 'branch' Steinberg.

Your brain belongs to you or is independent? Your hand? Your ass? Come on.........

lastmessiah · Post by **lastmessiah** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:18 pm

low_low wrote:The simple truth is, none of the "creative" markets are really that big, I mean purely creative not like hammers to fix your house. Video editing, music creation, 3d modeling, animation, etc, it SEEMS like everyone is doing it because the product is easy to duplicate and it has such a wide reach, .. but in the big scheme of things most of it is very technical and there are very few people buying VST's, etc, and FAR FEWER actually using them to make money.

Just look at videos on Youtube, Cubase 9 promo video has about 250,000 views, reviews about 100,000, a VST review might have 10,000 views .... Led Zepplin's Black Dog 67,000,000 views, Depeche Mode's Personal Jesus 73,000,000 views, Lady Gaga's Bad Religion 951,000,000 views. For everyone 1 person that watched the Cubase 9 promo video from Steinberg, 3800 people watched Bad Religion.

Most people are eaters.

You bring up good points. I sometimes assume that a lot more people are into creating, simply because how could they not be. But you’re right, most are consumers.

I’m not really interested in emulations of classic Yamaha synths, we have enough of those already. I’d like it if Yamaha brought a variation of their current FM engine “Montage” to the software realm.

felis · Post by **felis** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:25 pm

bbtr wrote:
Aloysius wrote:I buy jazz and fusion music but that doesn't make me a virtuoso. Yamaha buying out Steinberg doesn't make them 'cutting edge'.
When you are saying Steinberg, you mean Yamaha. Business is about ownership and about streamlining work tasks/processes to get them done. For 13 years, Yamaha has been releasing audio software under the 'Steinberg' label, brand, word or whatever. This includes VST2 and 3 SDKs, Nuendo, Cubase, Wavelab and many instruments and effects. Yes, Yamaha IS DEVELOPING virtual instruments! Why is this so hard to understand?

I'd much rather have Steinberg making software for Yamaha as they are now,
than having Yamaha make it themself.
Steinberg has been a main innovator right from the start.

Of course, I don't know how many people were kept on from the originals,
and how many new people were brought in by Yamaha.

But I will say that I'm much more pleased by the software from Steinberg
than I am by the hardware from Yamaha.
Take a look at Steinberg's Halion. It does almost everything I could want from a softsynth.

There are a couple things that Yamaha developed that I'd like to see Steinberg pick up
and take further. FDSP comes to mind. It's a shame VL was dropped by Yamaha and AAS
has also dropped Tassman. Yes, there are others making modeling software, but I bet
Steinberg could do a good job with it. Of course there are the basics like FM that I
don't think Steinberg has done yet. The do have the VA area pretty well covered though.

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:49 pm

Richard_Synapse wrote:
lastmessiah wrote:Seems like it would be a big market for them.
Not exactly. Yamaha makes several billions/year, the virtual instrument market is pretty much irrelevant for them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Corporation

It's more like the opposite, for a small software developer it would be a huge market starting to build pianos

Richard

Frankly, I’m surprised any large enterprises release music-making software. If they’re mostly interested in making money there are much more profitable markets.

Dullee · Post by **Dullee** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:02 pm

Roland's are damn spot on (even confirmed by Urs somewhere). Korg's M1 and Wavestation are also spot on (and go as far as ultimate as possible, containing all the ROM expansion cards and much increased polyphony compared to the originals)

Though if Urs went apeshit and went from Diva to complete modelings of MS-20, Jupiter-8 and Juno, would you really pull Japanese soft anymore? Me, hardly.

Why doesn’t Yamaha develop virtual instruments?