Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Out Now!)

[loachm]

AFAIK there's no dynamic allocation of automation parameters in VST2, possibly even VST3. They all need to be reported when instantiating the plugin. So it's either report all possible parameters, or do the "wrappers" like Kontakt, Battery, etc.

I'd say dynamic allocation of parameters to host would just wreak havoc anyways.

...thanks for the assessment. I was just wondering, because I think, Komplete Kontrol does exactly this (reporting the parameters, when a new instrument has been loaded) and that a similiar mechanism would be possible for a synth. If anybody might have some experience with this, it is NI.

[drdriller]

the live workflow is great to initiate a automation, click configure, go on the plugins, move your fader, that it.

Battery way : go on the plugins, clic view explorer, clic automation tab, drag a automation slot to your fader, then back to live click configure, go to the plugins again, move the new automation button.... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF BORING

then macro offer possibilities (combined controls, inverted course..), but they are already offered by live.

I like being able to make a synth template in Live and mapping the Live macros to the synth macros, then just working in the synth

automation templates are evil, i used to have very complete and worked template, messy and useless, now i assign macro on the fly and i'm far more productive.

[EvilDragon]

AFAIK there's no dynamic allocation of automation parameters in VST2, possibly even VST3. They all need to be reported when instantiating the plugin. So it's either report all possible parameters, or do the "wrappers" like Kontakt, Battery, etc.

I'd say dynamic allocation of parameters to host would just wreak havoc anyways.

...thanks for the assessment. I was just wondering, because I think, Komplete Kontrol does exactly this (reporting the parameters, when a new instrument has been loaded) and that a similiar mechanism would be possible for a synth. If anybody might have some experience with this, it is NI.

Yes but if you open an empty instance of KK in your host, you will see a bunch of empty automation parameters reported. So in that regard it's the same as Kontakt, Battery et al. It just reports whatever automation the patch that is loaded into it has automatically.

[EvilDragon]

Battery way : go on the plugins, clic view explorer, clic automation tab, drag a automation slot to your fader, then back to live click configure, go to the plugins again, move the new automation button.... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF BORING

Or, you just right-click a control you want to automate, and choose "Enable host automation". It auto-increments the IDs and is just much faster overall.

[vurt]

yeah, but was it made in reaktor?

[AnX]

yeah, but was it made in reaktor?

i think it was made in germany

[drdriller]

Battery way : go on the plugins, clic view explorer, clic automation tab, drag a automation slot to your fader, then back to live click configure, go to the plugins again, move the new automation button.... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF BORING

Or, you just right-click a control you want to automate, and choose "Enable host automation". It auto-increments the IDs and is just much faster overall.

hooo !! great tips ty bty it is still two click more than the standard workflow

i do not use battery anymore, drum rack are so blasting ! (i came to ableton very late so i'm enthusiastic ^^)

[chk071]

yeah, but was it made in reaktor?

i think it was made in germany

Yeah, we don't have any more Reaktors here. Only windmills.

[jancivil]

Battery way : go on the plugins, clic view explorer, clic automation tab, drag a automation slot to your fader, then back to live click configure, go to the plugins again, move the new automation button.... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF BORING

Or, you just right-click a control you want to automate, and choose "Enable host automation". It auto-increments the IDs and is just much faster overall.

So do you think this is how Massive X will function, or is it going to be like Absynth where you have 16 Macros and like 4 other basic things reported and that's the end of it? I rarely run into that as a limitation but then I might use two instances.

Now, Sonic Couture is hard-wiring their list of automatables so, eg., Haunted Spaces has 00-241 and you're out, can't be defined by the user at all. To make for consistency in the NKS hardware.
(Unless there is something editable somewhere in a file on the computer, which doesn't seem likely or very feasible.)

[Touch The Universe]

I think manual automation is one of the fun parts of doing it live, but, I guess it might be not to automate some basic stuff. The concept of a plugin handling automation is new to me. It might be cool, or not. Is the automation recorded in the song or just for a live fx?

[loachm]

Yes but if you open an empty instance of KK in your host, you will see a bunch of empty automation parameters reported. So in that regard it's the same as Kontakt, Battery et al. It just reports whatever automation the patch that is loaded into it has automatically.

...yup, that's what I meant - you could take a setup with the modules with the most controls to have a maximum number of controls. This fixed number (like with any other VSTi) is reported to the host when the plug-in is loaded. Certain ID ranges are reserved for each module and once a module is loaded its parameters would appear in that ID range. That is part of which I don't know, if it is communicated to the host (changing/loading a module). But since it works with KK (the parameters are reported, if you change, e.g. from Massive to Absynth), I think it could work for a "regular" synth, too.

The idea behind that is, that it would be possible, that, for instance, all the parameters for the filter controls are on parameter page xy, no matter, if a filter module is loaded or what type with whatever number of parameters. You could train your muscle memory and have both the advantages from a software instrument and a hardware workflow (the mouse would still work anyway). However, this would be a step forward for the hardware/software interaction and they seem to have the technology. They develop very sophisticated synths, but they seem to make no efforts to think about how they could be used even with their existing hardware. Maschine/KK is quite powerful, but they allow us only to use a few macro knobs. For that, you don't need to buy their hardware - midi-mapping a few controls with a standard midi controller works, too (with a lesser resolution and no parameter value read-out - OK...).

That's where I'm quite angry with NI - I get all the delays with Maschine, Kontakt, Reaktor and Massive, because software development of pieces with such a complexity and history is no piece of cake. But since they've drawn a line and start something new with MX, I really expect them to use their existing architecture to full extent. Would be a shame, if they won't.

[drdriller]

when using 14 bits midi the resolution is even more precise than with komplete kontrol..

what i hated about KK was controls template attached to presets, i like to have the same template for all presets..

and komplete kontrol software is a joke, macro are not real macro, fx can't be controlled if they are not the first device.. i went thru limitation using mux modular as a host but at the end 3 layers of plugins host made me quit... i'm happy with 14 bits midi and instrument rack now..

[jancivil]

obvious thing is obvious

[teilo]

AFAIK there's no dynamic allocation of automation parameters in VST2, possibly even VST3. They all need to be reported when instantiating the plugin. So it's either report all possible parameters, or do the "wrappers" like Kontakt, Battery, etc.

I'd say dynamic allocation of parameters to host would just wreak havoc anyways.

There are workarounds. Fathom, for instance, reports 32 parameters to the DAW, and dynamically assigns them to a control when you click a control's label.

[EvilDragon]

That's pretty much the same deal I'm talking about, then. It can't have more than 32 automatable parameters simultaneously, then? You get 32 slots and you get to decide which parameters you want to have in those slots. Cool, but other plugins support more slots (Kontakt has 512, for example).

I think manual automation is one of the fun parts of doing it live, but, I guess it might be not to automate some basic stuff. The concept of a plugin handling automation is new to me. It might be cool, or not. Is the automation recorded in the song or just for a live fx?

Automation can be both recorded and done live, that was never a problem.

when using 14 bits midi the resolution is even more precise than with komplete kontrol...

Wrong, because host automation is way more precise than 14 bits, and KK's parameters use host automation, not MIDI