Vember Audio Surge is now open-source

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
101 posts since 2 Mar, 2018

Post Fri May 21, 2021 7:24 am

Does anyone else notice that this causes a huge extra lag in booting up your DAW?

KVRian
685 posts since 27 Dec, 2003

Post Fri May 21, 2021 7:28 am

Can't confirm this (REAPER 6.29).

KVRAF
8574 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Fri May 21, 2021 7:34 am

mixyguy2 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 7:24 am
Does anyone else notice that this causes a huge extra lag in booting up your DAW?
Are you putting the plugin resources in the VST Plugins folder? I've found that doing with any plugin will slow down load times in the DAW because it has to scan the skin and preset folders to make sure you didn't slip a VST .dll in there. For instance, moving my U-he resources from VST Plugins to Documents really cut down on DAW load times.

KVRist
101 posts since 2 Mar, 2018

Post Sat May 22, 2021 6:31 am

Not sure I follow. Whatever folder I put it in I will have to make sure my DAW scans, so how does putting it in another one change anything? PS this is an unusually huge lag I'm talking about, not the "ordinary" one the DAW has when scanning/picking up each plugin.

KVRist
404 posts since 25 Dec, 2018

Post Mon May 24, 2021 1:06 pm

what's your daw and os?
If you are on windows and opted for a portable install and your daw is scanning all the presets that could be slow at rescan time I guess maybe? I think that's the point from Funkybot (and it is one of the reasons some people don't like the portable install).

KVRAF
3471 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Poland

Post Wed May 26, 2021 12:35 am

Why would a DAW scan anything other than .dll and .vst3 ?
Scanning a plugin directory should take less than 0.1 second.
[====[\\\\\\\\]>------,

Ay caramba !

KVRAF
5718 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki

Post Wed May 26, 2021 1:12 am

I only scan the plugin folder when I add new plugins, but even then Surge is just as fast to scan as any other vst. Ableton live

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KVRAF
21710 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Wed May 26, 2021 1:35 am

Mutant wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 12:35 am
Why would a DAW scan anything other than .dll and .vst3 ?
Scanning a plugin directory should take less than 0.1 second.
You'd think that but it's not always the case apparently.

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KVRian
978 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Wed May 26, 2021 6:10 am

Mutant wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 12:35 am
Why would a DAW scan anything other than .dll and .vst3 ?
Scanning a plugin directory should take less than 0.1 second.
You're on a Mac and have AUs, VSTs, VST3s, AAXs, etc.? :hihi: There are also at least two locations for each plugin type. It's pointlessly confusing, but same as on the PC.

From testing various DAWs, both for use and as hosts for plugin dev, each one does the scan differently. Each plug in is fully loaded and "queried". The depth of this scan can be dependent on DAW and plugin format. I don't remember how many different plugins in different formats caused hangs and/or blowups. One VST plugin can work in every DAW but one, and in that one fail miserably.

But I tend to agree that the scanning should be for info only and should only take a fraction of a second. But hey, I don't run the DAW world...

KVRAF
3471 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Poland

Post Wed May 26, 2021 10:25 am

syntonica wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 6:10 am
You're on a Mac and have AUs, VSTs, VST3s, AAXs, etc.?
I am on PC, my DAW of choice is REAPER.
It only fully scans a new plugin once, if it did that on every start, it would not be my DAW of choice anymore. :)
[====[\\\\\\\\]>------,

Ay caramba !

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KVRian
978 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Wed May 26, 2021 11:06 am

Mutant wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 10:25 am
syntonica wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 6:10 am
You're on a Mac and have AUs, VSTs, VST3s, AAXs, etc.?
I am on PC, my DAW of choice is REAPER.
It only fully scans a new plugin once, if it did that on every start, it would not be my DAW of choice anymore. :)
Oh! You were speaking about rescanning. I thought you were taking about the initial scan. NVM. :lol:

KVRist
404 posts since 25 Dec, 2018

Post Wed May 26, 2021 4:24 pm

Anyway on startup surge builds the list of all its presets by scanning the factory directory but not
Opening the files just doing a directory traversal and in 1.9 it does that on the main thread. Wonder if that is it?

Im still not entirely sure which setup is slow and which action is slow from this thread though.

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KVRian
978 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Thu May 27, 2021 2:58 pm

I'm not sure if this is a bug, or an annoyance for just me since it shouldn't happen in the real world.

Using a mono bass patch, playing two overlapping notes at the same pitch is a fail. The second note gets offed when the first note ends and there's a big gap in sound where there should be a phat bass sound!

Yeah, I'm the fussy type! :lol:

If I play a passage legato, the overlaps are going to happen, but not on a single note--there will naturally be a note off followed by a note on. But if I'm editing and I decide I want two repeating notes and slide one in the piano roll to the proper pitch, I can get this behavior. I've never really paid attention--does this happen in all mono VSTs?. I can easily edit the offending note, but...

I'm off to test some more plugins to see how they handle it.

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KVRAF
21710 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu May 27, 2021 3:05 pm

Wait if you overlap the same pitch, then there cannot be any sliding happening?

At any rate, don't think Surge is doing anything bad here, and from a quick test, Synth1, Dune, impOSCar, FM8... behave the same. It's basically this being received:

C3 note on, C3 note on, C3 note off, C3 note off. But since there's no memory of events per played key, first note off kills whatever was there before.

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KVRian
978 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Post Thu May 27, 2021 3:23 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:05 pm
Wait if you overlap the same pitch, then there cannot be any sliding happening?

At any rate, don't think Surge is doing anything bad here, and from a quick test, Synth1, Dune, impOSCar, FM8... behave the same. It's basically this being received:

C3 note on, C3 note on, C3 note off, C3 note off. But since there's no memory of events per played key, first note off kills whatever was there before.
I'm so used to treating the piano roll like fingerpainting, I forget it's supposed to be modeled on some reality that my brain refuses to accept. So, it's just me then, although I can't be the first person in the history of VSTs to complain about this! Can I? :lol:

Thanks!

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