Diva and Zebra questions

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Elektronisch
KVRAF
2314 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:55 am

I have both Zebra 2 and Diva and worked with Omnisphere 2 (but dont have it)

Diva has much higher quality oscillators, but its more limited and more CPU hungry.
Zebra 2 is much more versitile, lower CPU use and comes with Zebrify aka Zebra FX

If you are considering between those 2 i think Zebra2 is a better go to cover more ground.
If you consider Diva i would also check Waves Element 2 (i recently discovered), its much more cheaper and the sound is much fuller and has more clarity and more punch (the sound and clarity reminds me a bit Roland System 8/Jupiter 8 just with more punch). But its gui isnt scalable and i think its more CPU hungry than Diva.

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Urs
u-he
22516 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:01 am

hivkorn wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:46 am
since i 'm here , Uhe has done 1 time a sale , last year if my memories are good..
2017, for Diva's 5th birthday. Also, 2004, remember Group Buys? :clown:

Not really sales per se, but... We sometimes do customer surveys which we reward with coupons, I think twice in four years. And also, this year our newsletter fell into GDPR-limbo so we offered a coupon for everyone who subscribed to our new newsletter. Furthermore, sometimes we do specials with other companies. For example, we've done a special with Bitwig twice.

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hivkorn
KVRAF
2790 posts since 6 Sep, 2007 from France

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:11 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:01 am
hivkorn wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:46 am
since i 'm here , Uhe has done 1 time a sale , last year if my memories are good..

2017, for Diva's 5th birthday. Also, 2004, remember Group Buys? :clown:
yes ! it what i was talking about :D

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2314 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:37 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:01 am
hivkorn wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:46 am
since i 'm here , Uhe has done 1 time a sale , last year if my memories are good..
2017, for Diva's 5th birthday. Also, 2004, remember Group Buys? :clown:

Not really sales per se, but... We sometimes do customer surveys which we reward with coupons, I think twice in four years. And also, this year our newsletter fell into GDPR-limbo so we offered a coupon for everyone who subscribed to our new newsletter. Furthermore, sometimes we do specials with other companies. For example, we've done a special with Bitwig twice.
Its a bit offtopic but Urs how easy is to replicate that punchy/high attack sound in Diva? :-)

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bmrzycki
KVRAF
4069 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Austin, TX

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:55 am

djmino02 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:48 am
I think Omnisphere is wavetable synthesis. It also has fm, spectral, and granular synthesis
What Omnisphere 2 calls an Oscillator is a bit different from other synths.

At a high-level it has two modes: Sample and Synth. Both of these modes have what they call "synthesis functions" that either run in parallel to the source or mutate the Oscillator in series.

The Sample mode uses built-in sound sources and lets you mutate them with a few parameters. Depending on the source you can futher alter the sounds in "zoom" mode:
Image
Sample mode is the method that you can import your own waveforms.

In Synth mode the sound is pure DSP, according to Eric. Spectrasonics calls this Wavetable DSP but keep in mind you can't load or draw your own custom waveforms. The zoom mode shows pretty much all the parameters you have for a Synth oscillator:
Image

After both of these modes are the "synthesis functions". They aren't really part of the oscillator itself and I tend to think of them as per-voice FX before the Filter topology.

Some of the modes are their own sound generators like FM, AM, or Harmonia. Others like the Waveshaper or Unison alter the Synth or Sample input.

Some of the functions are more like "best hits" for that sound type. For example, the FM section only has 2 operators in a very simple [OP2] -> [OP1] layout. Don't expect it to have the depth of design that FM7 has, if you're looking for FM synthesis. Another is the Waveshaper, it's best-suited for more traditional wave mangling sounds. What it does, it does well though.

This is what I mean when I said Omnisphere does sound generation a bit different than Diva and Zebra.
Feel free to call me Brian.

Howard
KVRAF
3641 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:55 pm

Elektronisch wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:37 am
Its a bit offtopic but Urs how easy is to replicate that punchy/high attack sound in Diva? :-)
Fairly easy: In the TRIMMERS / RESET PHASE panel, set the Transient Mode to "osc reset" instead of "analog", then adjust the phase knobs to taste.
(And of course use punchy envelope settings)
Last edited by Howard on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2314 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:12 pm

Howard wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:55 pm
Elektronisch wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:37 am
Its a bit offtopic but Urs how easy is to replicate that punchy/high attack sound in Diva? :-)
Fairly easy: In the TRIMMERS / RESET PHASE panel, set the Transient Mode to "osc reset" instead of "analog", then adjust the phase knobs to taste.
Does it also randomise the phase?

Howard
KVRAF
3641 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:29 pm

Elektronisch wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:12 pm
Does it also randomise the phase?
If I understand you correctly, you wanted maximum punch from the oscillators, so you need to set consistent phases. That's what "osc reset" does. Otherwise Diva behaves much more like an analogue synth: the oscillator phases at the onset of notes are quasi-random.

Off to check out that Waves synth...

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2314 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:49 pm

Howard wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:29 pm
Elektronisch wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:12 pm
Does it also randomise the phase?
If I understand you correctly, you wanted maximum punch from the oscillators, so you need to set consistent phases. That's what "osc reset" does. Otherwise Diva behaves much more like an analogue synth: the oscillator phases at the onset of notes are quasi-random.

Off to check out that Waves synth...
Nope, waves elements has punchy, clicky sound witch is random with retrigering off, its more prominant in the lower frequency area (i think, i didnt checked thro analyzers but somewhere from 50-140hz and even higher). Sometimes it reminds me even a bit Virus Ti.

Howard
KVRAF
3641 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:08 am

Ah OK, I guess you mean the envelopes. Diva generally avoids attack clicks, so even the "INIT Alpha" template (the most digital one) has both Attack times set to 1.00 (instead of zero) by default. Use the "DIGITAL" envelope option and set the Attack to 0.00.

BTW Waves Elements (which appears to aimed at Sylenth1 more than anything else):
Phase/pitch consistency is via the VCO/DCO option (not RTRG). To quote the manual "VCO starts the oscillation at a random phase and jitters the pitch within a contained range; DCO starts the oscillation when triggered by a note and is more consistent."
Last edited by Howard on Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:55 am, edited 8 times in total.

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tehlord
KVRAF
7687 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:27 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:58 am


I don't have any of those, but I assume that the two U-he synths are more synth-oriented, whereas Omnisphere is more of a rompler. I don't think one can replace the other.
Why do people keep thinking this years after release :hihi: :shrug:

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2314 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:35 am

Howard wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:08 am
Ah OK, I guess you mean the envelopes. Diva generally avoids attack clicks, so even the "INIT Alpha" template (the most digital one) has both Attack times set to 1.00 (instead of zero) by default. Use the "DIGITAL" envelope option and set the Attack to 0.00.

BTW Waves Elements (which appears to aimed at Sylenth1 more than anything else):
Phase/pitch consistency is via the VCO/DCO option (not RTRG). To quote the manual "VCO starts the oscillation at a random phase and jitters the pitch within a contained range; DCO starts the oscillation when triggered by a note and is more consistent."
I quickly tried your suggestion (but on phone headphones on my laptop) and it didnt produce same result :(

AH so i suppose those are VCO pitch inconsistencies that produce that "punch" (thought about that). Is it possible to emulate same behaviour in Diva without modulating adsr to have that randomness?

Uhe hive on Normal mode with one osc having flow and other random + 0 attack on envelopes feels like the sound is somwheat in the "element" direction, but not as "in your face".

User avatar
Urs
u-he
22516 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:49 am

Hehehe, may I kindly request audio examples? I usually visualize "punchy" as the opposite of "snappy". Punchy envelopes start slowly and accelerate from there, snappy ones start fast and slow down from there. Or so. But with these terms, I never really know what people mean.

Examigan
KVRAF
4357 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:59 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:01 am
hivkorn wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:46 am
since i 'm here , Uhe has done 1 time a sale , last year if my memories are good..
2017, for Diva's 5th birthday. Also, 2004, remember Group Buys? :clown:

Not really sales per se, but... We sometimes do customer surveys which we reward with coupons, I think twice in four years. And also, this year our newsletter fell into GDPR-limbo so we offered a coupon for everyone who subscribed to our new newsletter. Furthermore, sometimes we do specials with other companies. For example, we've done a special with Bitwig twice.
Also, not exactly a "Sale" but there were nice intro prices offered here and there. I think Repro-1 was at $99 for its intro price.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2314 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Diva and Zebra questions

Post Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:52 am

Urs wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:49 am
Hehehe, may I kindly request audio examples? I usually visualize "punchy" as the opposite of "snappy". Punchy envelopes start slowly and accelerate from there, snappy ones start fast and slow down from there. Or so. But with these terms, I never really know what people mean.
By punchy (virus ti punch knob) best to describe snappy, strict, percussive, like the sound has a short kick beneath :-)

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