Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Rik
KVRist
140 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Ottawa, Canada

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:51 pm

mholloway wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:10 am
So now the big thing is Cypher 2 with the Roli integration, which came out about two years after its originally scheduled release -- ok fine, it happens... but apparently with the focus on this synth, everything else was forgotten / ignored / discontinued / who cares, apparently.
Not sure what the big deal is but Cypher 2 is crazy - there is nothing that sounds as warm or analog as that synth. The presets are outstanding... that synth is unique

HM
KVRist
392 posts since 14 Aug, 2001 from DK

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:00 pm

I just joined the cheap ECO>BFD3 offer a few days ago ,... have not even installed yet

I should have known it was to good to be true

Unfortunately I did not see this thread before now, I consider my money lost now, I don't want to play this downhill game,

Don't whant to throw pressures time into a hole, I am not the quickest animal in the forrest, so continuity and trust is a must, as it takes me long time to adopt a new piece of software

Don't whant to engage into something that is unlikely to be supported proper and long term

Yes, them not being visible, open, dedicated, and active tells it all, its all extremely saddening
HM

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plexuss
KVRAF
2164 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:42 pm

HM wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:00 pm
I just joined the cheap ECO>BFD3 offer a few days ago ,... have not even installed yet I should have known it was to good to be true. Unfortunately I did not see this thread before now, I consider my money lost now, I don't want to play this downhill game, Don't whant to throw pressures time into a hole, I am not the quickest animal in the forrest, so continuity and trust is a must, as it takes me long time to adopt a new piece of software. Don't whant to engage into something that is unlikely to be supported proper and long term. Yes, them not being visible, open, dedicated, and active tells it all, its all extremely saddening.
I would encourage you to contact them and tell them of your concerns. I did as did some others. The more they hear from us concerned customers the more it will enter into their business decisions. If you dont vote you dont have a voice. :phones:

Here's my post about it here with a link to their contact form: viewtopic.php?p=7188617#p7188617

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10513 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:25 pm

HM wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:00 pm
I just joined the cheap ECO>BFD3 offer a few days ago ,... have not even installed yet

I should have known it was to good to be true

Unfortunately I did not see this thread before now, I consider my money lost now, I don't want to play this downhill game,

Don't whant to throw pressures time into a hole, I am not the quickest animal in the forrest, so continuity and trust is a must, as it takes me long time to adopt a new piece of software

Don't whant to engage into something that is unlikely to be supported proper and long term

Yes, them not being visible, open, dedicated, and active tells it all, its all extremely saddening
It's one thing to be disappointed that some products have been discontinued, long before their time. It's a completely different thing to suggest that ROLI/FXP is trying to grab as much money as they can, via promotion, for a product that they are about to drop.

I could be wrong, but it doesn't appear to be their style.

If you believe that they are going to keep dropping products (I don't), and their absence in this thread "tells it all" to you, then that's fair enough. However, I see them putting a lot of weight/development behind certain, much older, products that could easily have been replaced by totally new ideas, at this point.

They've clearly streamlined the inventory, and the four products that are left seem poised to get all the attention (A good thing with regard to the missing bug-fixes, and slow development that people seem to associate with FXP). To me, that's a positive :shrug:

Seems I may hold on to Geist for a little while longer, and hope the next release gets the features/usability balance right :tu: And if you decide to sell off your BFD for the same bargain price you got it for, hit me up :ud:

HM
KVRist
392 posts since 14 Aug, 2001 from DK

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:53 pm

Plexuss:

Will consider doing that

El-bo:

Hope you are right, but daubt it,..

Good intentions are not enough, they need to be able, and willing, to carry the heavy load also IRL

JRR stil got the BFD3 upgr. for 63.75$ at check out if you are interested

(To me it was an escape from Toontrack, and their aggresive upgrade policy on SD2>SD3)
HM

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lnikj
KVRAF
1773 posts since 23 May, 2005 from the North Cornwall coast

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 am

It's probably no coincidence that they did this just before Mojave shipped.

As I said before the shoddy way this has been handled is what offends me. It beggars belief that they are still selling Tremor for £120.

HM
KVRist
392 posts since 14 Aug, 2001 from DK

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:31 am

The ECO>BFD3 giveaway could be in orde to create and maintain a solid userbase for something they intend to continue and promote

But most often it indicates last part of the life-cycle, and shady support/ transparancy,..

A bit like AIR and Sonivox I would guess
HM

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10513 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:59 am

HM wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:31 am
The ECO>BFD3 giveaway could be in orde to create and maintain a solid userbase for something they intend to continue and promote

But most often it indicates last part of the life-cycle, and shady support/ transparancy,..

A bit like AIR and Sonivox I would guess
They've seemingly offered you a lifeline with the cheap upgrade from an end-of-line product to a supported product. If you don't want it, I could probably help you out (And no, I don't own ECO)

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10513 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:03 am

lnikj wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:00 am
It's probably no coincidence that they did this just before Mojave shipped.

As I said before the shoddy way this has been handled is what offends me. It beggars belief that they are still selling Tremor for £120.
The communication has definitely been handled badly.

With proper communication pre-sale, I don't see why they shouldn't sell Tremor. A windows user could probably still get many years of use out of it

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Vertion
KVRist
418 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:07 am

FXpansion is one of the best around. Roli has great unique hardware. I invested in both Roll and FXpansion. When I find something that works, I like to keep it that way, even if it means running an older OS in a virtual machine. But when the availability of that is removed or threatened to be so it can be very maddening for customers who invest and depend on those products to be there. Since FXpansions products are activated online, if that service is no longer available, the product is truly gone forever (unless the software is modified). I think most people recognize this, so it's difficult to rationalize their choice as good for the customer, it's not. It's simply wrong. If they however compensated by making it upsupported freeware and/or removing the online activation requirement at the end of it's cycle. Truly the product becomes a dependable gem, potentially forever. The SOL attitude that the company implemented though is very noticed, and would make any buyer beware for any company. It hurts reputation. It might be better to swap out the next version at the time it happens. Roli and FXpansion/Roli make great products, but customer relations and dependability are equally important.

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CrystalWizard
KVRian
607 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbiti sw usa

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 am

Tremor not only activates on line, but, doesn’t it “phone home” when you switch to graph mode? If so does it still work? I can’t test it today.
gadgets an gizmos...make noise
https://soundcloud.com/crystalawareness

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Vertion
KVRist
418 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:38 am

The decommissioned products (Tremor included) currently activate just fine, but due to this ongoing online activation dependency, will FXP perpetually have the activation service/server running online? If the server disappears, you'll never be able to actuvate it ever again. Which illustrates the dependability problem I am referring to. (Unless the plugin code were modified.) The highest quality things stand the test of time, so let time tell show how dependable FXP/Roli really is.

Ps. Keep in mind, the online activation is just a key generator program.

EASY FIX: Design products that do online activation, and if that fails look for a keyfile. The keyfiles are never generated UNTIL the product cycle is ending and give a 6 month window for each user to download their own keyfiles. Thus addressing the issues for both developer and customer. Since no keyfiles are given until the end of the product cycle, it requires online activation until that time.

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jancivil
KVRAF
15318 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:02 am

I can actually imagine a drum controller by ROLI, why wouldn't they? And BFD3 uses velocity to pitch, let's consider tom-toms. So you would add the pressure articulation to the mix and make toms express like bayan (the bass part of the couple known as tabla). It might work now, but as far as leveraging it with Note Expression... I'll have to try it. But a controller basically like bop pad but MPE integrated with BFD3.

So, who knows. But too many people rely on BFD3, while a boutique synth which is not performing to the extent of profitability in the marketplace may be another matter, bottom line.

At the moment I'm quite bummed out by the broken Host Automation. I mean totally doesn't work. Weird that NO ONE at the forums has shown interest for years (if ever). It's probably been broken for some time. It isn't just me, support replicated/verified everything in my reports. My workarounds mixing are just insufficient really.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10513 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:29 am

jancivil wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:02 am
I can actually imagine a drum controller by ROLI, why wouldn't they?
The Rise is already the best drum controller I've used. I've dropped using my mod'ed mpd pads, along with the PadKontrol, in favour of the Roli. It's much more sensitive, much more consistent, and I can now map/use many more articulations than I could with 4x4 grid.

The only thing I still am interested in is the Joué. Amongst other things, It can function as a pretty compact 48-pad controller. Of course, it also has the MPE expression :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 4hAngwFf_s

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2153 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:05 pm

Vertion wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:36 pm
I would say that Roli's hardware is it's only tangible asset. I get the acquisition of Juce for a power grab, but ironically, that could slip through their fingers just as quickly as they discontinue products for FXP. Acquisition of FXPansion makes sense, it had superior products because the developers who coded them, many who have moved on to their own companies. The strategy is to make all plugins dependant on their hardware, starting with the best, so musicians would be required to buy their hardware. Talk about sand slipping through fingers. Their desired outcome is only possible through real rapport and concern for their customers, pampering. Not transparent power moves and drastic cutoffs. Ouch.

Learn from Tone2, they are wise in the ways of the force.
It seems to me that Roli would like more synths to support their keyboards, and to help out they have added support for it in Juce and made tutorials for developers to more easily implement it: https://docs.juce.com/master/tutorial_m ... ction.html . All that sounds pretty positive to me. But remember that MPE is a public spec, and anyone can make DAWs or keyboards that support it.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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