Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2035 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:59 am

ZeePok wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:35 am
 
I never understood this; are you required to upgrade your OS with Apple?
Not immediately no. But if you decide to stick with an older OS for a longer time - you end up in an unbearable situation where you can't use newer plugins or libraries because they don't feel it's important to support OS:es that's just a few years old. If the software is good enough, you might even keep a computer with an older OS just to run that.

Sorry for the OT - but this update OS mania and new versions every year got to stop. It just creates problems.

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
DISTORTED EVOLUTION SPACE - Deep Space soundscapes for OMNISPHERE
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2035 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:17 am

I've always been a fan of FXpansion and I felt they came to their absolute best with Geist 1 and DCAM Synth Squad. When Geist 2 came out and I saw the horrendous UI I decided to sit things out, and sure enough - bug report after bug report. Missing features. More bug reports. Crashes. When Strobe 2 came out - I bought it and while I really liked it - I felt that breaking up the DCAM concept was a bit sad. After that FXpansion slowly started to fade out from my horizon. When Cypher 2 came out I tried to muster up some passion for it - but after keep on reading about frustrated users and bugs on the whole FXpansion software line, I passed on it.

I think it's safe to say the old FXpansion is gone and is currently evolving into a new FXpansion/ROLI-thingy. That doesn't have to be a bad thing. I just hope the keep their products line down to a minimum so they don't overstretch the support and development.

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
DISTORTED EVOLUTION SPACE - Deep Space soundscapes for OMNISPHERE
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

Cinebient
KVRAF
3779 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:31 am

The only positive thing about the Roli thing is (for me at least) that FXpansion might be forced to do something for iOS as well :D .
Otherwise i would agree with the overall content of this thread.
Roli is also good for not solving bugs and/or letting it go for months and months until i´m already tired of it.
Sorry to say that i´m underwhelmed with both companies.

Belinski
KVRer
9 posts since 26 Aug, 2018

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:59 am

Strange thread ! Welcome to capitalism guys, you know this system where people invest their skills, time and money to build what we call a company, take risks, get success or not, and have the right to sell their assets to anyone willing to pay the price. Nothing new here. Fx owners decided to sell to Roli, good for them. In the same way, Camel Audio was sold to Apple, while it was one of the most respected audio company around, and no one complain. I have been screwed, like many others, by Abbey Road when they stopped their product line just before the move to 64 bits, but that's ok, I mean thats life. If you would have listed few years ago the so called fair and reliable companies where "you can trust and purchase" as someone mentioned (!!!), you would have included Fxpansion, Camel Audio, Abbey Road, URS, etc...They are no longer in the business or still there but with new orientation. That's life, like it or not, that's reality, so you can keep on whining and complaining, it will not change anything. By the way, where is coming from this strange idea that when you purchase a plugin, you are entitled to get support for ever, or that it would give you the right to become a kind of shareholder of the company ! You've got what you paid for at the moment you made your purchase, with the specs listed at that time. I have many plugins that are no longer supported and I still use them, and anyway even if they would be supported, new players, new technology and new products make them quickly obsolete.
May be you can set your own company and start to code your own products if you are not happy with this situation, but loosing your time to set the list of respectable companies is ridiculous imho.

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Aloysius
KVRAF
22496 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from a computer

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:32 am

OK. That's enough thread diversion for one day. Let's get back to the whining and complaining.
Happy Christmas

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plexuss
KVRAF
2379 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:06 am

JunSev wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:19 pm
[snip...]
No plexuss, really you are wrong here, you're trying to find and analogy for a very weak argument in favor of hardware .
Not at all. You misunderstand me. Software is simply risky in terms of longevity. A dev can pull all support and if the system is upgraded there is are risks that supported software will stop working. We are at the whims of the software developers. especially Apple where an annual OS update can kill your entire music functionally.

Meanwhile my minimoog from 1973 is still working.

I am not saying hardware is better than software in general. But in terms of mitigating these risks, hardware wins. :phones:

kingtubby
KVRian
890 posts since 1 Mar, 2003 from Duston, NN5

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:18 am

Belinski wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:59 am
In the same way, Camel Audio was sold to Apple, while it was one of the most respected audio company around, and no one complain.
No one complained? That's not how I remember it.
γνῶθι σαὐτόν

chk071
KVRAF
17683 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:25 am

Aloysius wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:32 am
OK. That's enough thread diversion for one day. Let's get back to the whining and complaining.
:lol:

There's always two sides BTW. The side that buys, and the side that sells. Might be or looks bad for the customers owning the respective companies product, but, in the end they very well know whether or not it makes more sense to go on doing the business alone, or sell to Apple. I'm sure they also had insight about how many of their customers are on Mac, and how many were on Windows computers.

Certain employees acting like they're all revolutionary, and showing their hate towards establishment, and capitalism, and then silently selling out to the big guys left aside. :P

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9315 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:26 am

What really happened is that FXPansion is dead. Roli killed it for the instruments they were interested in. What they should do is sell off the other plugins they don’t care about to another developer.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Cinebient
KVRAF
3779 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:42 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:26 am
What really happened is that FXPansion is dead. Roli killed it for the instruments they were interested in. What they should do is sell off the other plugins they don’t care about to another developer.
It might be that they couldn‘t, even if they want.
I could say the same about some other tools (like my beloved P900). Abandoned and a shame that others can‘t work further on such nice DSP.
However, life goes on, earth still rotate and new developers growing as well...
Don‘t look back!

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kovacs
KVRAF
2431 posts since 5 Dec, 2003 from Harlan's World

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:54 am

Belinski wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:59 am
Strange thread ! Welcome to capitalism guys, you know this system where people invest their skills, time and money to build what we call a company, take risks, get success or not, and have the right to sell their assets to anyone willing to pay the price. Nothing new here.
Yeah, of course it’s their right to f**k their customers. It’s just not the best way to treat them.

When it happens to you, do you celebrate and say “yeah! Finally this stuff that I spent time and money on will be worth nothing.”?
In the same way, Camel Audio was sold to Apple, while it was one of the most respected audio company around, and no one complain.
No one complained? That’s a lie and either you know it or you are ignorant. Thankfully a kind of aftermarket survived for a while.

Also, Camel products resurfaced as part of Logic Pro X. Alchemy is still a wonderful synth and CamelPhat and CamelSpace were reworked into new plugins only recently released. But the investment is lost for all Camel customers who do not own Logic Pro X.
Too many pieces of music finish far too long after the end. - Stravinsky

epiphanius
KVRist
129 posts since 23 Mar, 2002 from Victoria BC

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:15 am

Curious: would Alchemy in Logic read patches created in the old Windows version?
Image

NothanUmber
KVRist
305 posts since 1 Jul, 2004

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:21 am

Hm, perhaps it is time for SynthOS. An operating system (e.g. based on a low latency Linux kernel) that just stays as is as a platform for synths. Without internet connection (so security fixes aren't necessary). Where plugins can be copied over from USB stick to the computer. That is supposed to be installed to a dedicated machine that is not used for anything else.

After some years a new edition of SynthOS might come out. Then people shouldn't "update" but just keep their SynthOS2018 machine and buy a new one for SynthOS2025 which they can use side by side with the old one.
This would combine the benefits of "hardware" and software synths - new features could be added fast like for software and if the inevitable point in time is reached where it isn't feasible for the dev anymore to further maintain the plugin it wouldn't stop people from further using it. (You don't throw your CS80 into the dust bin just because Yamaha stops selling them).

To further make sure the platform's "immortality", protection should just be serials or watermarked binaries etc. So if the machine dies you can revive it as long as you still get some hardware that is compatible with that SynthOS version. (Chances are good - you can still get any computer generation off ebay).
People would have to stay strong and not buy anything (for that SynthOS platform) that binds the software to a particular piece of hardware and requires active support from the dev for re-activation. Then it won't be an option for devs that threatens to thwart the basic idea behind the concept. E.g. the well-being of u-he and others convinces me that activation/dongles etc. are not a financial necessity. If the plugin is great then enough people will pay for it.
And if some companies don't want that - fine, it's quality over quantity anyways.

Similar regarding "eternal betas" - there it's in the hands of the buyers to tell the devs about our priorities with our pockets. Not buying anything on that platform without a demo, neither buying anything whose demo is buggy - but actively telling the dev that you are interested, but not buying yet because of bug xyz.
As long as people buy stuff no matter what they send the message to the devs that investing into stability isn't lucrative, so there is less incentive for them to invest into making things stable instead of adding new features that make money again.

I could imagine that plugins could be first released to the usual OSes.
And if a really stable version is reached this is released to the stability-and-longevity sensitive SynthOS people. That could mean that not each and every version of a plugin is available for that platform and that it might be somewhat more expensive than the same plugin for other platforms (extra stability iterations cost money).
That would imho be ok!

robotmonkey
KVRAF
2086 posts since 20 Jun, 2012

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:43 am

I think the only product I have from them is the free distortion plugin that was included with Computer Music once. Not even sure if I have used it. So no big loss.
No signature here!

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JunSev
KVRist
279 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:49 am

plexuss wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:06 am
JunSev wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:19 pm
[snip...]
No plexuss, really you are wrong here, you're trying to find and analogy for a very weak argument in favor of hardware .
Not at all. You misunderstand me. Software is simply risky in terms of longevity. A dev can pull all support and if the system is upgraded there is are risks that supported software will stop working. We are at the whims of the software developers. especially Apple where an annual OS update can kill your entire music functionally.

Meanwhile my minimoog from 1973 is still working.

I am not saying hardware is better than software in general. But in terms of mitigating these risks, hardware wins. :phones:
Yeah I can understand your anecdotes, but all of that is more true with Apple system in particular, and to be honest I really don't like anything about apple, my laptop is windows and my phone android, what I'm trying to put out is that sometimes you can't support or endorse those sort of system that at the end of the day will disrespect you or doesn't even care about your investments, none of them are perfect but one choice can be better than the other, for instance you see some companies with a very clear inclination towards money and bad ambitions and if they have to do some tricky movement to get more money from you, they will do it, is in that moment when we have to open our eyes and see whats going on.

By the way is good if your moog is working, still in 50 years my software will continue efficient and like new always, I will take the right product and support the developer that deserve to be supported, I will go with the operative system that stand for more convenient politics (although yeah there is something bad with all of them), and my decision will be rewarded with more stability at the hour of production of music and functionality.

Just don't forget: bad decisions will eventually lead to bad results...

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