Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
kiezum
KVRist
461 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:03 am

monomaker wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:26 am
ROLI has acquired the following companies: JUCE, FXpansion, and Blend.

Personally, I'm more concerned about JUCE. If that goes down the tubes, half the plugin companies on the planet will have a serious framework dilemma. Their primary product is a niche novelty item, so when things get desperate I'd imagine plan B will be to squeeze every last drop of JUCE out of the market. At which point none of us will care much about our discontinued FXpansion plugins.
Julian Storer, who made Tracktion and Juce, is now Head of Software Architecture at Roli.

BTW, he bought Tracktion back from Mackie. He will probably buy Juce back from Roli if it all goes wrong.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
2166 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:24 am

Here is FXP's reply from my correspondence with them, FYI:
Hi,

Thank you so much for sharing this feedback – we take it seriously when someone who has been as committed as you are to our products has something important to say. I appreciate your taking time to pass this along.

After six years of maintenance, we are no longer supporting Tremor, as you've mentioned. We are shifting much of our focus on the current range of flagship FXpansion products, and new products under development. We're implementing many of Tremor's features in future projects, but as a standalone and plug-in it is now discontinued.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you and your work. I appreciate that you've supported our brand and products for a long time. Please know that the decision was difficult to end support for Tremor, but we need to make the most of our resources as we're maintaining products like the new Cypher2, even as we work to create exciting new synths and plug-ins.

I hope that at the very least this discontinuation provides some clarity about what we can justifiably commit to, even if it's not the news you wanted to hear. Please be aware that as a license holder for any products you own, you'll have access to all downloads and content as long as you hold an account with us.

Thanks for your understanding, and we're always here if you have any questions.

Kind regards,

Jared | Creator Support Manager
plexuss wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:11 am
I sent this to them. I suggest you do something similar. The only way these companies will listen is if their bottom line is under attack. Here is the link to their support form: https://support.roli.com/support/tickets/new

:phones:
Hello. I own Tremor, BFD3, Geist2, Strobe2 and Cypher2. And a RISE 49. I want to express my extreme disappointment in your recent silent discontinuation of software products including Tremor. I paid good money for your products and part of that money comes with the trust that you would be developing your products and keeping them alive for me to use as tools. What you did with Tremor and the other products by discontinuing them like that was completely unethical. My trust in FX/Roli has diminished because of this.

If you discontinue BFD or Geist I will be supremely angry. I will take an active role in fighting against your company and disuading others from purchasing your products. I have many $1000's invested in libraries for these products.

Please reconsider the discontinuation of Tremor - it was only out for a short time. At the very least please sell the rights to these products to someone else who will care for them, and the associated customer.

I know you have "business decisions" to make. So I will help you, If you make another “business decision” that affects me negatively as a customer, I will help you make another “business decision” to bring those products back by, as much as I can, negatively impacting your business with negative word-of-mouth commentary to prospective customers.

What you did was rude, untrustworthy, irresponsible, inconsiderate and down right one of the worst things a software company can do to a customer.

I wont stand for it.

Plexus Productions, Canada.

perpetual3
KVRist
338 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:53 am

That is basically a SOL letter if I ever read one.
plexuss wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:24 am
Here is FXP's reply from my correspondence with them, FYI:
Hi,

Thank you so much for sharing this feedback – we take it seriously when someone who has been as committed as you are to our products has something important to say. I appreciate your taking time to pass this along.

After six years of maintenance, we are no longer supporting Tremor, as you've mentioned. We are shifting much of our focus on the current range of flagship FXpansion products, and new products under development. We're implementing many of Tremor's features in future projects, but as a standalone and plug-in it is now discontinued.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you and your work. I appreciate that you've supported our brand and products for a long time. Please know that the decision was difficult to end support for Tremor, but we need to make the most of our resources as we're maintaining products like the new Cypher2, even as we work to create exciting new synths and plug-ins.

I hope that at the very least this discontinuation provides some clarity about what we can justifiably commit to, even if it's not the news you wanted to hear. Please be aware that as a license holder for any products you own, you'll have access to all downloads and content as long as you hold an account with us.

Thanks for your understanding, and we're always here if you have any questions.

Kind regards,

Jared | Creator Support Manager
plexuss wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:11 am
I sent this to them. I suggest you do something similar. The only way these companies will listen is if their bottom line is under attack. Here is the link to their support form: https://support.roli.com/support/tickets/new

:phones:
Hello. I own Tremor, BFD3, Geist2, Strobe2 and Cypher2. And a RISE 49. I want to express my extreme disappointment in your recent silent discontinuation of software products including Tremor. I paid good money for your products and part of that money comes with the trust that you would be developing your products and keeping them alive for me to use as tools. What you did with Tremor and the other products by discontinuing them like that was completely unethical. My trust in FX/Roli has diminished because of this.

If you discontinue BFD or Geist I will be supremely angry. I will take an active role in fighting against your company and disuading others from purchasing your products. I have many $1000's invested in libraries for these products.

Please reconsider the discontinuation of Tremor - it was only out for a short time. At the very least please sell the rights to these products to someone else who will care for them, and the associated customer.

I know you have "business decisions" to make. So I will help you, If you make another “business decision” that affects me negatively as a customer, I will help you make another “business decision” to bring those products back by, as much as I can, negatively impacting your business with negative word-of-mouth commentary to prospective customers.

What you did was rude, untrustworthy, irresponsible, inconsiderate and down right one of the worst things a software company can do to a customer.

I wont stand for it.

Plexus Productions, Canada.

User avatar
Vertion
KVRist
419 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:36 pm

I would say that Roli's hardware is it's only tangible asset. I get the acquisition of Juce for a power grab, but ironically, that could slip through their fingers just as quickly as they discontinue products for FXP. Acquisition of FXPansion makes sense, it had superior products because the developers who coded them, many who have moved on to their own companies. The strategy is to make all plugins dependant on their hardware, starting with the best, so musicians would be required to buy their hardware. Talk about sand slipping through fingers. Their desired outcome is only possible through real rapport and concern for their customers, pampering. Not transparent power moves and drastic cutoffs. Ouch.

Learn from Tone2, they are wise in the ways of the force.

chk071
KVRAF
17017 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:52 pm

Hey, at least they announce that they discontinue their products... unlike other companies in the business, which just let them die a uncertain death.

sluggo
KVRian
593 posts since 31 May, 2002 from chez moi

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:15 pm

Fxpansion was one of my favorite companies. They seemed to get the vst business. Of the companies that were around when I bought dr-008 (eg Big Tick, Linplug, RCGAudio, dBaudioware, Native Instruments) who are still around? NI is one of the last survivors from those days. Others of similar age are probably DiscoDSP and what is now u-he. That fxpansion lasted so long speaks to how they ran their business.

I still use GURU, on Windows 10. Seems ok to me, maybe I don't push it hard enough to see bugs.

I think if you have a plug in that has not been updated in 5 years, the fact that it is officially discontinued or support is stopping for it is probably irrelevant. It sucks that it will never be updated or fixed if needed. I totally get that it sucks even more if your plug-in is quite new. One thing that has served my mental state ok over the years is accepting that every piece of software I buy is "as-is" and I assume that any existing bugs will never be fixed.

I have no idea how most plug in companies stay in business.

ZeePok
KVRian
985 posts since 22 Aug, 2004 from Edge City, the Low Country

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:34 pm

sluggo wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:15 pm
Fxpansion was one of my favorite companies. They seemed to get the vst business. Of the companies that were around when I bought dr-008 (eg Big Tick, Linplug, RCGAudio, dBaudioware, Native Instruments) who are still around? NI is one of the last survivors from those days. Others of similar age are probably DiscoDSP and what is now u-he. That fxpansion lasted so long speaks to how they ran their business.

I still use GURU, on Windows 10. Seems ok to me, maybe I don't push it hard enough to see bugs.

I think if you have a plug in that has not been updated in 5 years, the fact that it is officially discontinued or support is stopping for it is probably irrelevant. It sucks that it will never be updated or fixed if needed. I totally get that it sucks even more if your plug-in is quite new. One thing that has served my mental state ok over the years is accepting that every piece of software I buy is "as-is" and I assume that any existing bugs will never be fixed.

I have no idea how most plug in companies stay in business.
Hey, Big Tick is still around! :)

http://www.bigtickaudio.com/

Granted, it seems rather 'dormant' for a while, but who knows? Maybe 'Tick' has been silently coding away all those years on that next great 'killer' synth! :borg: :) :cool:

moshimoshi
KVRist
57 posts since 18 May, 2016

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:02 pm

I imagine the plugins they discontinued didn't sell that well.. probably the compressors etc couldn't compete with companies who live and breathe that stuff, and something like Tremor which I own - every time I've seen a thread on it since it was released I see people saying something ridiculous like 'buy microtonic instead' which is absurd to me, Tremor is so many light years ahead, it's not even close. When faced with that kind of cliquey stuff on forums which can probably kill a plugin stone dead, the devs are probably not left with much choice - if there aren't enough users to continue development then products die, I don't think fxpansion is the first company to do this. Am I annoyed as a Tremor owner? I guess so, but like someone else said earlier, I buy software based on what it does now, not based on whatever might happen down the line. Maybe I'm lucky that I'm unlikely to update my macos install anytime soon and things like this are a reason why (again fxpansion not alone in this at all)

jdnz
KVRian
703 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:28 pm

ZeePok wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:34 pm
Hey, Big Tick is still around! :)

http://www.bigtickaudio.com/

Granted, it seems rather 'dormant' for a while, but who knows? Maybe 'Tick' has been silently coding away all those years on that next great 'killer' synth! :borg: :) :cool:
not dormant - their work is mainly 'behind the scenes' now on products sold under other labels (check out their facebook to see the list)

kiezum
KVRist
461 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:54 am

They don’t even take support serious. Roli replied to my support ticket with an automated e-mail:

‘After many years of maintenance we are no longer supporting the products you've mentioned as we focus on the current range of flagship FXpansion products, and new products under development. We're implementing many of these products' features in future projects, but as standalone and plug-ins they are now discontinued.

We're sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you and your work. We appreciate that you've supported our brand and products for a long time. The decision was difficult, but we just need to make the most of our resources as we're maintaining products like the new Cypher2, even as we work to create exciting new synths and plug-ins.

We hope that at the very least this discontinuation provides some clarity about what we can justifiably commit to, even if it's not the news you wanted to hear. While I cannot offer you any form of compensation, please be aware that as a license holder for these products you own, you'll always have access to all downloads and content as long as you hold an account with us.

Thanks for your understanding, and we're always here if you have any questions.

Kind regards,

Jared | Creator Support Manager’

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10514 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:10 am

kiezum wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:54 am
They don’t even take support serious. Roli replied to my support ticket with an automated e-mail:
Seems they are taking it seriously. Would you expect that they start from scratch every time a customer asks about legacy products? After about 1000 of such inquiries it would be normal for them to just about be bothered to write, "Sucks to be you". :shrug:

This way, they get to convey everything that needs to be said to anyone who feels slighted, while allowing the team to offer real support to individuals that need it.

imrae
KVRist
394 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:11 am

I don't see any clarity on what kind of support exists over what timeframe. If you buy an FXpansion product that came out four years ago, should you expect two years of maintenance updates? Would they fix it if it breaks on the next major OS update?

yellowmix
KVRian
695 posts since 11 Aug, 2012

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:34 am

The clarity is they will let you know by discontinuing the product. This is the right thing to do. AAS eventually did the same with Tassman 4 (though they still sell it "as-is").

No other plugin developer guarantees any specific maintenance timeframe so it's very unreasonable to expect it. And it doesn't matter when you buy the product; software maintenance isn't provided on an individual basis. It's like being late to a party.

imrae
KVRist
394 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:50 am

No. The right thing to do is announce that the product will be getting maintenance releases for X years after release. It shouldn't be possible to buy a plugin, have it bricked by a Windows security update the next day and the developer say "nah, we're not doing that one any more".

yellowmix
KVRian
695 posts since 11 Aug, 2012

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:26 am

Show us any other plugin developer that does that.

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