Cytomic Synthesizer

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
dayjob
KVRian
1238 posts since 6 Nov, 2006

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:50 pm

sleepcircle wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm
dayjob wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:28 pm
i think it's sorta perfect. i use it on the master of every track when mixing. i have zero complaints. it does what it does really really perfectly. i always know what i'm going to get w/it and it's super satisfying.
i ENTIRELY agree, but if he thinks he can make it even better, who am i to stop him?




(also he mentioned he might add a model of the pre-amp circuit)
oh i wouldn't try either. totally trust whatever he does. i'm sure he has plans or thoughts on it that wouldn't occur to me. i never use it and think "i wish it had/could..."

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2155 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:42 am

dayjob wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:28 pm
just curious.. is there a feature you think it's missing or is it a 'sound' issue?

i think it's sorta perfect. i use it on the master of every track when mixing. i have zero complaints. it does what it does really really perfectly. i always know what i'm going to get w/it and it's super satisfying.
The current DSP will remain as the MD (medium definition) mode, and I'll add an HD mode that models the subtle non-linearities in the main signal chain and gain reduction amp. I also plan to add a stepped knob to mix between dual mono and linked (current) detection in the side-chain.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Delta Sign
KVRist
446 posts since 22 Jun, 2018

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:07 am

Nice :tu:
Maybe there could be an M/S option in addition to the dual mono option as well?

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2155 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:15 am

Delta Sign wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:07 am
Nice :tu:
Maybe there could be an M/S option in addition to the dual mono option as well?
Dual mono only requires one set of knobs, as the left and right both share identical settings. Is this what you would want with Mid Side processing? I doubt it!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Burillo
KVRAF
2973 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:17 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:15 am
Delta Sign wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:07 am
Nice :tu:
Maybe there could be an M/S option in addition to the dual mono option as well?
Dual mono only requires one set of knobs, as the left and right both share identical settings. Is this what you would want with Mid Side processing? I doubt it!
IK does this brilliantly with mode switching. so, still one set of knobs, but you can set those knobs to display L/R, or M/S setting, with an "=" side being stereo mode, and switches for LR or MS modes. see here:

Image
From Russia with love

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Delta Sign
KVRist
446 posts since 22 Jun, 2018

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:22 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:15 am
Delta Sign wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:07 am
Nice :tu:
Maybe there could be an M/S option in addition to the dual mono option as well?
Dual mono only requires one set of knobs, as the left and right both share identical settings. Is this what you would want with Mid Side processing? I doubt it!
Sure, why not? A little decoupling of the detection of the "Mid" and "Side" can go a long way to increase the perceived stereo width, without messing up the stereo image, I do it all the time.

It's not really important, I just thought it would be be a nice option to have.

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2155 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:42 pm

I want to invite anyone from FXpansion to comment as they see fit on here in this thread on Synth Squad, oversampling, initial preset design, lack of built in effects, or any other topics I've touched upon or new ones relating to Synth Squad and changes made in Strobe2 and Cypher2. I've tried to be as honest and open as possible about the development process and its challenges, mistakes I made, and mistakes I think FXpansion made, and I hope readers like hearing about some of these details. I'm very proud of Synth Squad and what it can do, and FXpansion are making things better with Strobe2 and Cypher2 :)

PS: if you would like to start a different thread to talk about this stuff that's fine too, please let me know!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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solidtrax
KVRian
566 posts since 6 Nov, 2011 from The Netherlands

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:48 am

For what it's worth, we really appreciate you have explained some things about the development of Synth Squad. For some reason we always assumed you helped out with the filters, but we didn't know you basically developed the synths completely. We have used Synth Squad a lot and enjoyed the amazing sounds we could create with them. As sound designers, we have not payed a lot of attention to the stock sounds, so can't comment on those. We are really looking forward to your synthesizer, and that's an understatement. :)
Dawn of Dreams - 100 lush and shimmering presets for Reveal Sound Spire
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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2155 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:19 am

solidtrax wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:48 am
For what it's worth, we really appreciate you have explained some things about the development of Synth Squad. For some reason we always assumed you helped out with the filters, but we didn't know you basically developed the synths completely. We have used Synth Squad a lot and enjoyed the amazing sounds we could create with them. As sound designers, we have not payed a lot of attention to the stock sounds, so can't comment on those. We are really looking forward to your synthesizer, and that's an understatement. :)
Just to clarify I didn't "develop the synths completely"! I did the DSP for the Strobe, Amber, and Cypher, all the filters, oscillators, envelopes, lfos, other modulation sources, modulation framework, oversampling engine, voicing engine, and came up with the core product idea of the three synths and a combiner. Although I made the final decisions on the sound engine I received a lot of input all along the way from the team at FXpansion as well as testers, the product as a whole was very much a team effort. Angus was particularly helpful with keeping Cypher as clean as possible with various ideas for keeping the knob count to a minimum!

The core framework (non DSP stuff), AU / RTAS / VST wrappers, the GUI framework (drawing to the screen and handling mouse events), the GUI design tool, the logo, the graphics, the naming of the product and its features (eg the term "TransMod"), the installers, the manuals, the web page, the audio examples, the presets, the box design with printed DVD, and the list goes on... All of this stuff and more the team at FXpansion handled :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2155 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:15 am

Also, please remember I didn't start this thread, it's very early days. Based on my previous Cytomic releases it's going to take a while to finish a whole synth :tu:

Sooo...

If you like the look (and sound) of Cypher2 or Strobe2 or another synth please don't wait, go and grab it! I don't get any royalties on Cypher2 or Strobe2, so I'm not saying this to make money, but it's just great to see Cypher2 reaching it's full potential using polyphonic modulation from Roli keyboards!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

perfumer
KVRer
17 posts since 4 Oct, 2018

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:26 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:19 am
I did the DSP for the Strobe, Amber, and Cypher, all the filters, oscillators, envelopes, lfos, other modulation sources, modulation framework, oversampling engine, voicing engine, and came up with the core product idea of the three synths and a combiner.
Are you still happy with your work on those?

Who did the fx?

spunkmuffin
KVRian
679 posts since 5 Sep, 2014

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:18 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:15 am
Also, please remember I didn't start this thread, it's very early days. Based on my previous Cytomic releases it's going to take a while to finish a whole synth :tu:
I like this thread, I like it a lot and it's a good read but it makes me want the Cytomic XXX synth more...and more...and more...and more...:hyper: :( :hyper: :(
andy-cytomic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:19 am
Just to clarify I didn't "develop the synths completely"! I did the DSP for the Strobe, Amber, and Cypher, all the filters, oscillators, envelopes, lfos, other modulation sources, modulation framework, oversampling engine, voicing engine, and came up with the core product idea of the three synths and a combiner. Although I made the final decisions on the sound engine I received a lot of input all along the way from the team at FXpansion as well as testers, the product as a whole was very much a team effort. Angus was particularly helpful with keeping Cypher as clean as possible with various ideas for keeping the knob count to a minimum!

The core framework (non DSP stuff), AU / RTAS / VST wrappers, the GUI framework (drawing to the screen and handling mouse events), the GUI design tool, the logo, the graphics, the naming of the product and its features (eg the term "TransMod"), the installers, the manuals, the web page, the audio examples, the presets, the box design with printed DVD, and the list goes on... All of this stuff and more the team at FXpansion handled :)
This time around (please correct if I'm wrong) but there will be just 1 guy doing all the stuff in the 1st paragraph as well as all the stuff in the 2nd paragraph, so that's going to take a loooong time.

Thinking statistically, let's see...Cytomic has released 2 products in the last 10 years with a third almost released so that's 1 product every 4 or 5 years. So assuming the Glue update takes another year, we can expect this synth by hmm 2022? I really want this synth - especially the 'modular DSP', the variety of logic operations, and the oversampling options as described earlier (page 3), but I can't see it happening before like the James Web Telescope launches. That's almost an eon! Sorry to be a party pooper. :D
:hyper: M O N O S Y N T H S F O R E V E R :hyper:

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2155 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:21 am

perfumer wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:26 am
andy-cytomic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:19 am
I did the DSP for the Strobe, Amber, and Cypher, all the filters, oscillators, envelopes, lfos, other modulation sources, modulation framework, oversampling engine, voicing engine, and came up with the core product idea of the three synths and a combiner.
Are you still happy with your work on those?

Who did the fx?
Yes, I'm very happy with my work on Synth Squad, and I think for the CPU used they are outstanding synths. Based on the following document:

http://fxpansion1.com/manuals/pdf/DCAM_ ... Manual.pdf

And my slightly unreliable memory it looks like I did quite a few of the FX in Synth Squad, some were pre FXpansion algorithms (Vellocet) which I also licensed to Steve Duda for his Xfer products (eg Serum), and some newer stuff I did for BFD while at FXpansion (eg frequency shifter, BusComp, ChanComp - anything with DCAM on it) and some are different parts of the Synth Squad pulled out to use on anything (Amber Formants, Amber Chorus etc). There is also Overload's Breverb in there, and Angus did some as well, I think primarily in the form of X4 effects (eg four filters in parallel), I think SKoT did the noise gate, so really it's a big mix of stuff.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2155 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:53 am

spunkmuffin wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:18 am
I like this thread, I like it a lot and it's a good read but it makes me want the Cytomic XXX synth more...and more...and more...and more...:hyper: :( :hyper: :(
I'm always happy to talk about things and give a bit of background :) Things aren't always straight forward when making products, so I think it's good to stand back and realise the good things as well as the things that didn't work out quite as good as expected.
spunkmuffin wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:18 am
This time around (please correct if I'm wrong) but there will be just 1 guy doing all the stuff in the 1st paragraph as well as all the stuff in the 2nd paragraph, so that's going to take a loooong time.

Thinking statistically, let's see...Cytomic has released 2 products in the last 10 years with a third almost released so that's 1 product every 4 or 5 years. So assuming the Glue update takes another year, we can expect this synth by hmm 2022? I really want this synth - especially the 'modular DSP', the variety of logic operations, and the oversampling options as described earlier (page 3), but I can't see it happening before like the James Web Telescope launches. That's almost an eon! Sorry to be a party pooper. :D
...
The good news is I've done large chunks of the DSP already. The graphics I'm getting much quicker at doing now, both 3D rendering, and vector graphics which I can import and render directly in the plugin as SVG. I'm using the Juce framework to tackle a lot of this stuff, and have done since Cytomic was founded. The manual, audio examples, tutorials, web page, and a bunch more is always a lot of work, so yes it will still take time, but I would really love to get it finished before the end of 2019, but I have no idea if that will happen or not till I'm well into the work and have a better idea of scope of the project.

I spent the last 6 months or so re-tooling Cytomic's entire circuit solving and code generation engine, and developing new circuit solving methods, which is a huge chunk of R&D. I have written a sparse matrix solver (so I can handle much larger circuits), a new symbolic expression class that can handle basic simplifications and optimisations (more than enough for the maths involved with circuit solving and much faster than the old one to do it's work, and easier to add extra bits to), and invented a previously unpublished method I'm calling the PDK method for fixed and low CPU solving of arbitrary non-linear circuits. I've also done some work for Ableton, and I'm closing in on releasing v1.0 of The Scream, and hopefully things will start moving a bit quicker again with end customer facing releases :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

Distorted Horizon
KVRian
1134 posts since 17 Jan, 2017

Re: Cytomic Synthesizer

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:44 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:53 am
The manual, audio examples, tutorials, web page, and a bunch more
I'm quite sure I'd buy your synth without any of those, if you just finish it and make it available at least for us here at Kvr :lol:

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