UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
17367 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:35 am

Cinebient wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:06 am
Alchemy still win hands down for more moving sounds in general.
Completely disagreed on this one. Unlimited modulators in Falcon! :)

Spencer Maddox
KVRist
226 posts since 19 Oct, 2017

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:48 am

Kinh wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:14 am
how do I resize the modules in falcon? the scaling is for the frame. all the modules stay the same size. Unless there's something I don't know.
The IRCAM algorithms are actually pretty close to Abletons as far as retaining quality goes. Ive tested them together (with re-tuning vocal) . In fact Ableton's complex pro is slightly better to my ears...less harshness.
Speaking of which, it's actually the IRCAM that cause mine to crash (i7 6core, 32G) so I never use it. Glad you got a better system than mine. I was thinking of upgrading to i9 but I shouldn't have to, every other plugin works perfectly
Funny you say that because I have a lesser power Macbook (I7 16gb 6 Core) and Falcon works fine...Could it be Ableton causing the Goofage? I've had Falcon crash in Ableton before but Ableton is usually a reliable Plugin Host so I have trouble believing Ableton would be the cause.
More Espresso Less Depresso

User avatar
DocAtlas
KVRian
973 posts since 11 Jan, 2006 from Pittsburgh

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:55 am

fmr wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:34 am
EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:30 am
fmr wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:50 am
AFAIK, it doesn't do wavetable synthesis (again, AFAIK)
Omni does do wavetables.
Didn't know. I stand corrected, then :tu:

Can we load our own wavetables? Which format does it use?
All of the waveforms in Onmisphere' synth oscillators are morphing wavetables. Eric Persing mentioned this a few years ago in the NAMM videos introducing Omni 2. You can't create your own wavetables or import third party ones, but the included ones are quite varied, and the 2.5 update added a lot more. The modulators for FM and Ring Modulation also have the same wavetables.

But since this thread is about Synthmaster & Falcon, I'll shut up about Omni. Try the demo of Synthmaster, watch videos on both, and see which one better suits your need at the moment. I own both, and they're both very good, but they're different enough that it's like comparing apples to turnips.
I wish I could sing as well as the voices inside my head...

http://www.cdbaby.com/darkvictory

Cinebient
KVRAF
3910 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:50 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:35 am
Cinebient wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:06 am
Alchemy still win hands down for more moving sounds in general.
Completely disagreed on this one. Unlimited modulators in Falcon! :)
So we might totally disagree.
I own both and to achieve similar moving, interesting sounds i need to do tons of automations and modulations with Falcon.
Also even if Falcon has much more FX i like the few unique FX in Alchemy much more.
Why should i use 100 modulations if i can achieve better results with 10 is my motto here.
Also i just love the morphing of Alchemy.
Macros in Falcon are not even close to perform as nice.
But both can‘t even scratch anyway what Reaktor or other real modular could do.
Even Dune 2 is miles ahead here.
But of course we all have our personal likings and workflows.
It‘s also not always about the best „quality“.
GUI and workflow are as important as sound for me.
Here i prefer indeed even some tiny apps over my expensive plug-ins to get faster better results.

SamDi
KVRer
4 posts since 27 Apr, 2018

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:29 pm

To anwer the original question:

Falcon is one of the most powerful and flexible synth/sampler-hybrids known to me. To get more flexibility you have to go indeed in direction of Reaktor or Max/DSP or similar, but these cannot regarded as synths anymore, they are building environments. So Falcon is the top end as defined instrument. Similar is Mach 5, which is a kind of predecessor and still on the market, but currently it's not really maintained. The samplers Kontakt and Halion are similar, but less powerful in terms of synth capabilities.

In the synth world there a few synths which follow a semi-modular concept, e.g Zebra 2, Avenger or Synthmaster, but all in all they are less flexible than Falcon, though they have some superior strengths in single disciplines. They are all beasts and it can be said that synthmaster has the best cost-value ratio, while still sounding great.

Personally, I like Synthmaster very much, for me it's a perfect balance between feature loaded and yet having a good workflow, although some stuff is buggy and odd, when going into details.

The price for Falcons flexibility on the other side, is to have not this nice workflow. So for creating a new patch, you have to define a keygroup, add oscillators to keygroup and then add filters for example, means you have to build your "synth architecture" first.

I would say the FX in Falcon are outstanding, while many say, the FX in synthmaster are average. I do not share this opinion, FX in synthmaster are good to very good, but compared to Falcon they loose.

So as a summary Synthmaster is perfect as an universal waepon. Falcon is rather for top notch sounds. As there was the comparison with Falcon and the Ferrari. Of cause you can drive the Ferrari on common streets, although with less comfort. But on the racing court it can show the real potential.

BTW - Synthmaster is not Toyota and Falcon not Ferrari. Synthmaster is the Porsche and Falcon the Bugatti. Ferrari is Zebra 2 and Avenger then.

pandar1
KVRer
3 posts since 25 Sep, 2015

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:06 am

SoundPorn wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:06 am
I don't think they compare. Synthmaster is used to make music. Falcon can be used to make anything you can imagine. The only thing that really compares to Falcon is Reaktor.
Synthmaster has 2 oscillators.
2 oscillators? That's what it may seem if you never dig into it... it has 6 oscillators PER layer (2 main oscillators with 4 modulators which are full fledged oscillators themself), each main oscillator with 16 detunable voices or 8 addictive sub oscillators, and each layer has unison to 8... so you have a large number of oscillators per layer, the exact number is variable with the type of oscillators you choose

Adding the 2 layers you can saturate the 64 voices of polyphony just with one note if you use 16 voices per osc and 8 unison for the 2 layers

User avatar
zvenx
KVRAF
6888 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:43 am

Indeed I don't know how one would compare Falcon vs Synthmaster. They are entirely different.

I own license for synthmaster because, yes it is a wip in progress for stability but generally I really like how it sounds.
I don't for Falcon which as we all know there is no demo version, but I have never to this day, heard any Falcon sound bite anywhere that I liked the sound of, and by now I have listened to probably around 500 clips...Always sounds thin, cold and very digital to me, even when it is trying to do analog..... which may be the thing for some people, and nothing wrong with that.
ymmv
rsp
sound sculptist

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
1707 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:13 am

SamDi wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:29 pm
BTW - Synthmaster is not Toyota and Falcon not Ferrari. Synthmaster is the Porsche and Falcon the Bugatti. Ferrari is Zebra 2 and Avenger then.
And Halion is the Tesla...

kv331
KVRAF
5551 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from Ankara, Turkey

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:16 am

pandar1 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:06 am
SoundPorn wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:06 am
I don't think they compare. Synthmaster is used to make music. Falcon can be used to make anything you can imagine. The only thing that really compares to Falcon is Reaktor.
Synthmaster has 2 oscillators.
2 oscillators? That's what it may seem if you never dig into it... it has 6 oscillators PER layer (2 main oscillators with 4 modulators which are full fledged oscillators themself), each main oscillator with 16 detunable voices or 8 addictive sub oscillators, and each layer has unison to 8... so you have a large number of oscillators per layer, the exact number is variable with the type of oscillators you choose

Adding the 2 layers you can saturate the 64 voices of polyphony just with one note if you use 16 voices per osc and 8 unison for the 2 layers
in wavetable mode you can have 2 wavetable oscillators. but the unison and spread parameters for each osc help you create rich sounds from one single osc.

in additive mode you can edit the 8 individual oscillators that add up to create 1 osc. (I'll increase that to 16 in v3.0 by the way). volume, phase, tone, algorithm, waveform/sample, osc type (single cycle or sample), detune can be separately edited for each osc. and of course there are 4 modulators per layer which helps you create a variety of fm/pm/am/rm or use as sub. Too bad I couldn't still show that many of the dx7 algorithms can be created in SM2. I need time to create more template presets :)

So, in additive mode you can run 4 modulators + 16 oscillators per layer.
Works at KV331 Audio
SynthMaster voted "Best VST/AU Synth of 2016" by MusicRadar readers
SynthMaster One voted "Best New Virtual Instrument of 2017" by MusicRadar readers

pandar1
KVRer
3 posts since 25 Sep, 2015

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:24 am

kv331 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:16 am
pandar1 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:06 am
SoundPorn wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:06 am
I don't think they compare. Synthmaster is used to make music. Falcon can be used to make anything you can imagine. The only thing that really compares to Falcon is Reaktor.
Synthmaster has 2 oscillators.
2 oscillators? That's what it may seem if you never dig into it... it has 6 oscillators PER layer (2 main oscillators with 4 modulators which are full fledged oscillators themself), each main oscillator with 16 detunable voices or 8 addictive sub oscillators, and each layer has unison to 8... so you have a large number of oscillators per layer, the exact number is variable with the type of oscillators you choose

Adding the 2 layers you can saturate the 64 voices of polyphony just with one note if you use 16 voices per osc and 8 unison for the 2 layers
in wavetable mode you can have 2 wavetable oscillators. but the unison and spread parameters for each osc help you create rich sounds from one single osc.

in additive mode you can edit the 8 individual oscillators that add up to create 1 osc. (I'll increase that to 16 in v3.0 by the way). volume, phase, tone, algorithm, waveform/sample, osc type (single cycle or sample), detune can be separately edited for each osc. and of course there are 4 modulators per layer which helps you create a variety of fm/pm/am/rm or use as sub. Too bad I couldn't still show that many of the dx7 algorithms can be created in SM2. I need time to create more template presets :)

So, in additive mode you can run 4 modulators + 16 oscillators per layer.
Yes, I was trying to explain that saying it has only 2 osc is very unfair to synthmaster...

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
14538 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:31 am

SamDi wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:29 pm
Falcon is one of the most powerful and flexible synth/sampler-hybrids known to me. To get more flexibility you have to go indeed in direction of Reaktor or Max/DSP or similar
That is incorrect. My DAW has more flexibility and no need to go into coding in Max

I personally lost interest in hugely complex single instruments. My DAW is the instrument and I prefer 'simpler' synths as building blocks in it.

Rik
KVRist
145 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Ottawa, Canada

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:41 am

SamDi wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:29 pm
So as a summary Synthmaster is perfect as an universal waepon. Falcon is rather for top notch sounds. As there was the comparison with Falcon and the Ferrari. Of cause you can drive the Ferrari on common streets, although with less comfort. But on the racing court it can show the real potential.
Been using Falcon for couple months:
  • It is really easy to make some experimental sounds, there are two proprietary models of granular synthesis also way enough effects to make interesting FX quickly
  • the patches are top notch, each has a series of well thought controls
  • there is always debate on the "analog" sound but I really like the warm vintage sounds - only Cypher2 has sounds in the same range and quality
  • I wish it had the ability to be used as FX like Modular

AcrossTheSky
KVRist
80 posts since 3 Jul, 2016

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:13 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:25 am
Kinh wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:15 pm
How they're similar is everything is small and fidgety
Falcon has UI scaling, so no, things aren't small and fidgety if you use that.
Kinh wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:15 pm
What you can do in Falcon that SM cant is work with samples but it's prone to crashing depending on how much cpu you use.
Falcon never crashed over here even when maxing out the CPU.
Kinh wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:15 pm
everything else like time stretching and slicing you can do in most daws.
Not with IRCAM algorithms you can't - unless you have those pretty expensive IRCAM plugins in your DAW.
SoundPorn wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:06 am
Falcon can be used to make anything you can imagine. The only thing that really compares to Falcon is Reaktor.
Not really. In Reaktor you can do your own DSP, in Falcon you can't. Omnisphere is the closest thing to Falcon - with a big difference that in Falcon you can use your own multisamples instead of a single sample per layer like in Omni.
Yes...that's just reminded me of what Omnisphere 3 needs - a bit of a multi-timbral (multi-samples) sampler treatment with some 64 Stereo output channels etc..and more fancy panty oscillator types the World has never seen ;-)

or maybe Halion 7 this month will come with some cool surprises...who knows..

ubailey
KVRist
52 posts since 4 Apr, 2017

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:34 am

Some of the info on synthmaster is wrong. Synthmaster can indeed sample, although it is not explained in the manual. And synthmaster has two layers with 2 Oscar each, plus 4 mod’s per layer that can each be turned into oscillators. I have tested all of this myself.
UndramusiC.com

BERFAB
KVRAF
6039 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: UVI Falcon vs Synthmaster?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:49 am

Between Synthmaster, Falcon and Omni, you're really in some rarefied air. I'm not a programmer, just a tweaker. So I tend to fiddle about with included presets and pro-libraries/patches. Even so, the sound on these 3 instruments is amazing. But both Falcon and Omni are a cut above, IMHO.
True story: for the longest time, I had replaced my B3 instruments with a modified B3 patch in Synthmaster. Used it on everything. Had a nice Leslie effect attached to the mod wheel, etc. But then I got Falcon. I can't recall which library it's in, but there are a few organ patch sets that emulate B3 stuff along with some interesting variations. Now that's my go-to. Something about the sound that really puts it in another category. YMMV of course.

Cheers
-B
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

Return to “Instruments”