One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
zarf
KVRist
368 posts since 20 Jan, 2013

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:09 am

] Peter:H [ wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:12 pm
Just talking about specs and possibilities. We definitely need a decission about what is allowed and what is not.
] Peter:H [
z.prime wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:35 pm
Yes, you could load each bit of a much bigger waveform and play them somehow in succession. Traditionally this has been allowed. Typically the wavetable synths do some analysis and play back something not identical to the actual wave file, so in practice it's hard to get something like sample playback. Unsure about this one; will experiment in the next day or so.
Hey all - I'm about to explore the wavetable in modulAir - am I allowed to put anything (any wav or wavetable I made in serum for example) in there I like and do anything I want with it, or will it be breaking the rules please? I can see perfectly good arguments either way, don't mind, but would like to explore it if that won't get me shot at dawn :D

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] Peter:H [
KVRian
600 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:44 am

To be honest, after some thinking, I really see a problem here. Because Synths like Tone2 Icarus and probably serum as well allow to imprint some of the modulation of a patch into the source wavetables and save it as a newly created wavetable. Then you could easily export such a wavetable and import it into ModulAir. This would allow to forge all this "inspiring" woob-woob-dubstep-skrillex-and-what-else noize madness into a wavetable, import it in ModulAir and then just play it back.
I could even - as mentioned - earlier use the wavetable as Kick2 does, i.e. use a sample as the punch phase of a percussion patch combined with a pitched sine tail.
But if we go that route, then those guys with the most commercial tools or sample libs have sort of advantage.
But anyway, you're right zarf, we need a decision on that topic.

574X
KVRist
214 posts since 25 Aug, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:52 am

TheNeverScene wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:49 am
"Is anyone else experiencing the issue that when you load up one or several instances of ModulAir, fill them with modules, play notes and record,etc... that everything works without issue? Something has to be wrong."
Nope, first think I did was init, load up a formant osc and it crashed Reaper. See, it operates just like it says in the manual.
I prefer to work on records that aspire to greater things, like originality, personality and enthusiasm. - Steve Albini

574X
KVRist
214 posts since 25 Aug, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:15 am

This goes in the general discussion thread but...

Sample playback is flat out not allowed.

I'm not sure if this can or should change. I'd allow chorus much sooner than sample playback.

Personally, it's not a huge deal to me if you're using stock presets that use a sample. But the fact is that I went through the entire archive of one of the most prolific synth designers, HG Fortune, for the OSC, specifically to find a synthesizer that didn't use any sample playback to synthesize its sounds. That was literally the criteria for using it, even though people wanted for a long time to have an OSC with a synth of his and basically every other synth he made used samples.

However, single cycle waveforms are an amazing tool that we would benefit from practicing with.

Here's a single cycle waveform generator and editor for you.
http://scw.sheetsofsound.com/editor.html

If you're already acquainted with single cycle waveform generating, it seems cooler to me if you synthesized the single cycle waveforms with this OSC synth, itself.
I prefer to work on records that aspire to greater things, like originality, personality and enthusiasm. - Steve Albini

zarf
KVRist
368 posts since 20 Jan, 2013

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:30 am

574X wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:15 am
Sample playback is flat out not allowed.
Sure I get that, but isn''t there always this grey zone with wavetables? What about Peter's track for fathom (soundcloud.com/p-e-t-e-r-h/the-kybernetic-gods?in=kvrosc/sets/one-synth-challenge-109-fathom)?
Would you class that vocal as 'sample playback'?

Could be my brain deficiency but it doesn't seem obvious or clear cut to me (and there seems to be never-ending debate about it so maybe not just my confusion?) I would love it if we could either all get on the same page, or if bj/richard would make sure they give clarification up front every month.

I think this is OK in this thread as it is directly about the interpretation of the rules this month, no?

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] Peter:H [
KVRian
600 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:39 am

574X wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:15 am

Here's a single cycle waveform generator and editor for you.
http://scw.sheetsofsound.com/editor.html
Nice tool, thanks for posting it.
I think you could even use fathom for designing single-cycles, the editor offers the interesting "bezier" mode. But probably I'm wrong about that...
As for ready-made single cycles you could check out the famous Adventuer Kid collection: https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/

574X
KVRist
214 posts since 25 Aug, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:47 am

zarf wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:30 am
...isn''t there always this grey zone with wavetables?
Frankly I think that's a "grey area" so that people don't get disqualified, in the spirit of friendliness, etc etc.

OSC isn't the only way you can make music. You can make music with sampling and recording all you want. Have at it.

Plus, there are way more sampling competitions than there are OSCs. In fact there's only one OSC that I'm aware of, with this strict of a rule set where we commit to learning our process of creativity with this specific instrument.
] Peter:H [ wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:39 am
"...you could even use fathom for designing single-cycles, the editor offers the interesting "bezier" mode. "
Yes you can, as well as the demo of EuterpeXL with the OH SNAP oscillator which is a random wavetable generator.
That browser based one offers a lot of control and a fast workflow.
Last edited by 574X on Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
I prefer to work on records that aspire to greater things, like originality, personality and enthusiasm. - Steve Albini

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] Peter:H [
KVRian
600 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:47 am

-- deleted --
Last edited by ] Peter:H [ on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Daru925
KVRist
193 posts since 20 Mar, 2015 from Nerima, Tokyo

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:27 am

So i create a wave table with heavily distorted sound and effects because wavetables can mimic FX easily, then i load it up in modulair and voila, i can apply any effect that heavily affect sound but are forbidden to use as external effects, bypassing any rule, instead of having to find a clever way to recreate certain complex sounds within the synth's limitations.

My .02 but anything that loads external shouldnt be allowed imho.

zarf
KVRist
368 posts since 20 Jan, 2013

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:14 am

@Daru925 & 574X
I agree with you both. I prefer to have the challenge of creating sounds and interest without trying to make wavetables sound like samples. But of course, it's not up to me, and I notice that people do that kind of thing anyway sometimes, and so like Peter I wondered if we could be clearer for everyone.

574X
KVRist
214 posts since 25 Aug, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:32 am

Peter, I especially like the half time section of course.

I'm inclined to agree with your logic Daru.

Consider this, though. Wouldn't it make sense that this would be a great place to practice wavetable synthesis? Creating the waveforms and finding the sweet spots when scanning between them seems like a great thing to do here.

You could even make a case that this is a great place to practice those skills of working with an exact number of samples to achieve pseudo sample playback.

Edit: This is actually very clear, zarf. You quoted the quote I was trying to quote:
z.prime wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:35 pm
Yes, you could load each bit of a much bigger waveform and play them somehow in succession. Traditionally this has been allowed. Typically the wavetable synths do some analysis and play back something not identical to the actual wave file, so in practice it's hard to get something like sample playback. Unsure about this one; will experiment in the next day or so.
We simply need to await the verdict.

It occurs to me that I would personally just not go into wavetable synthesis wanting to load an already good sounding audio file and scan through it at the exact rate of 1:1 playback so that it sounds... how it sounds...

If it sounded slightly different then aren't we in the territory of very limited granular synthesis?

Ironically Daru, if it's easy for you to achieve FX sounds with wavetables, I'd love if you would go into more detail and post examples.
I prefer to work on records that aspire to greater things, like originality, personality and enthusiasm. - Steve Albini

TheNeverScene
KVRist
471 posts since 1 Dec, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:06 am

574X wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:52 am
Nope, first think I did was init, load up a formant osc and it crashed Reaper. See, it operates just like it says in the manual.
Well, no crashes here in Reaper yet, so fingers crossed.

I will say the formant osc doesn't sound very formanty. More bell-ish, almost like a one knob FM :) I was hoping for something more like Crust's formant, but I think that was a filter. Haven't messed with that module much, but I wonder if it's broken.
Just a touch of EQ and a tickle of compression

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schiing
KVRist
191 posts since 27 Oct, 2015

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:31 am

TheNeverScene wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:06 am
574X wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:52 am
Nope, first think I did was init, load up a formant osc and it crashed Reaper. See, it operates just like it says in the manual.
Well, no crashes here in Reaper yet, so fingers crossed.

I will say the formant osc doesn't sound very formanty. More bell-ish, almost like a one knob FM :) I was hoping for something more like Crust's formant, but I think that was a filter. Haven't messed with that module much, but I wonder if it's broken.
Try putting some fixed formant with a bit of LFO through the Audio S/H module and tweak around - I've got some Martian conversation going on like that :)

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Full Bucket
KVRian
529 posts since 25 May, 2010 from Hessisch Uganda, Germany

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:43 am

It is just one formant section of the scrooo.

Cheers Björn

TheNeverScene
KVRist
471 posts since 1 Dec, 2016

Re: One Synth Challenge #117: ModulAir by Full Bucket (Windows / Mac) (new Synthmaster bundle!)

Post Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:05 am

Cool Schiing, I'll try that. Weird aliens are kinda what I was wanting.

Bjorn, thanks for the clarification. That explains it's bell quality (I'm talking in Ring mode btw). You really have a masterpiece of a synth here, so looking forward to see what modules you have up your sleeve.
Last edited by TheNeverScene on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just a touch of EQ and a tickle of compression

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