u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
Urs
u-he
23238 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:31 am

Apparently, Hive is not for everyone. Some prefer traditional approaches, naive ones even, or whatever rocks their boat - I even gave you a viable explanation, one which the critical people here gracefully ignore. Nevertheless Hive has become one of the staples in our portfolio, and we see many people who love it for what it does. Now we're giving these people a substantial update, and I'm happy to discuss the new features with these people.

It is not intended to win people over who seek what Hive doesn't do. It's not meant to win over people who prefer one-dimensional, velocity-free preset libraries. Maybe Hive is too difficult to use in some mouse-based production workflow or whatever these people do, I don't know. We've had these discussions ad nauseam, there are numerous threads where all the answers can be searched. So why do you try to urge me into a discussion I have no interest in?

To clarify: We will not change Hive's oscillator unison feature. The risk of losing the group who likes Hive is too big, and the number of people who would actually be convinced by this is too small.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23238 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:33 am

chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:47 am
If the Hive supersaw would be so famous, it would be much more popular among EDM producers, wouldn't you think?
You still base your assumption on that single website which thrives on artist endorsements? The metric on that website does not work for us as we don't do artist endorsements.

Provide me with official sales numbers and usable analytics and I'll shut up. Not possible? Ok. Then please indicate that you're just assuming things out of non-verifyable resources.
Last edited by Urs on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23238 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:38 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:27 am
I see what you mean. Maybe it would help if you named that knob properly, like Sub Tune instead of Semitone.
The unit is semitones. The fractional part of semitones are cents. How would you know which kind of unit it was if we only labled it "Sub Tune"?

On a delay you'd rather have "seconds" where "0.003" is three milliseconds than have it labelled "Time" without any hint at the unit, no?
And I still don't see how one can set the Sub's width and pan separately from the main...
You can't. You don't need to. Use Osc 2.
Since you mention the Juno 60, if I remember correctly it only has a single wave source for economic reasons. From that source all waveforms are derived, thus there is no detune control.
See? We made it better! You have the option. Hurray!!!

chk071
KVRAF
18540 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:41 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:33 am
chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:47 am
If the Hive supersaw would be so famous, it would be much more popular among EDM producers, wouldn't you think?
You still base your assumption on that single website which thrives on artist endorsements? The metric on that website does not work for us as we don't do artist endorsements.
"That site" actually allows everyone to post entries based on Facebook, or Twitter posts or videos of the respective artists. So, most of the "artist endorsements" are actually stated by users of the site, not the artists themselves. So, it's a bit different to developers, or companies, which post these endorsements on their website. It's more of a general "he uses that" information. Of course, it's also an endorsement, otherwise the artists wouldn't post it on THEIR sites, but, there's also loads of production videos, where the artists show what they use for track XY, rather than a "Hey! I use that! It Rocks!!!".

keel
KVRian
735 posts since 27 Oct, 2004 from Inside the kick drum

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:43 am

It seems that Urs can't take any criticism at all :( Why you get so angry, if people tell you that they don't like Hive unison? Maybe there is a reason why they, and I don't like it. There can be millions of technical specs on it, the geek stuff you wrote, but in the, the sound is only what is matter, and Hive's unison just doesn't sounds good enough. We all have different opinions, so, yeah.

Why don't you stop arquining and rather spend this to improve Hive? Perhaps add new, optional unison engine to Hive? Like I said, Diva's digital osc supersaw is superb. I would love to see that on Hive with stereo spread.

Peace!

User avatar
martinjuenke
KVRAF
2996 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:44 am

chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:41 am
Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:33 am
chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:47 am
If the Hive supersaw would be so famous, it would be much more popular among EDM producers, wouldn't you think?
You still base your assumption on that single website which thrives on artist endorsements? The metric on that website does not work for us as we don't do artist endorsements.
"That site" actually allows everyone to post entries based on Facebook, or Twitter posts or videos of the respective artists. So, most of the "artist endorsements" are actually stated by users of the site, not the artists themselves. So, it's a bit different to developers, or companies, which post these endorsements on their website. It's more of a general "he uses that" information. Of course, it's also an endorsement, otherwise the artists wouldn't post it on THEIR sites, but, there's also loads of production videos, where the artists show what they use for track XY, rather than a "Hey! I use that! It Rocks!!!".
I wonder if Jordan Rudess uses HIVE... :?:

Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23238 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:46 am

chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:41 am
So, most of the "artist endorsements" are actually stated by users of the site, not the artists themselves.
Yep, and how do these users learn about those artist endorsements when the manufacturer of the plug-in does not plaster his website with tons of paid-for bullshit?

As I said, I did a quick reference between those super popular artists and our database. There were a lot of matches even if none of the super popular artists has any of our products listed.

It's called privacy policy. Our stuff is what these people actually pay for, and we give them the peace to enjoy it.

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12923 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:48 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:27 am
recursive one wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:41 am
provides audio examples.
To clarify: He provided an example I did not need to listen to. From the description I knew what he did wrong. The synth is designed to behave that way. It's not a bug or a flaw. It adds options. The sound he desires (Sylenth example) is exactly reproducible in Hive, with fewer mouse clicks from the init patch.

However, in order to save parameters in Hive, we had to give some parameters more powerful roles than, say, in Sylenth.

If something sounds odd to someone, there's a good chance that it isn't a bug, but a fix for a flaw we perceived elsewhere. The phase relation between main and sub oscillator is for instance inspired by the Juno 60 which has a "50% phase offset" kind of relation. This just cancels out fewer harmonics and sounds a lot richer than the naive "no phase offset" relation found in most other synths. Which lends itself to a richer Supersaw sound.

As such, this isn't about what it is. It is about someone picking specific features which were deliberately implemented the way they are, and trying to exposing them as flaws. They are flaws in his mind because they pose differences to the synthesizer he is used to. However, from my perspective, we find latter flawed and we implemented a better alternative in Hive.

Over the years we had probably 40 or more of these posts by this specific person. Deliberate or not, to me it has become borderline trolling and the hours I spent clarifying things have cost me much more than a lost sale. I just really think I'd have a better life without this person "interested" in our products.
So, how is the usual detune knob in Sylenth and other synths flawed?!

Oh really? 40 posts over the years, i.e. like 5 to 10 a year. As if that were much :roll: I remember posting positive views in a Repro and Ace thread, so your view of my trolling is just silly. With all the U-he fans on KVR you might simply not notice positive remarks as much as critical ones anymore...

Nor do I remember you clarifying things to me for hours. With most of my comments there is nothing to clarify in the first place, like that I don't like Hive's and the lower part of Diva's GUIs. Usually it's just a matter of taste, not a question or problem.

I actually like Hive's basic sound, it is on the softer side, a literal soft synth :hihi: That is why I bought it like 2 years ago, but I still was on my ancient AMD computer and for some reason Hive used way more resources than Sylenth. That was the main reason for selling it. I didn't know my computer would break and I would have to get a new one, anyway :hihi:

epiphaneia
KVRian
600 posts since 29 May, 2011 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:50 am

May I distract from the supersaw/unison question for a moment to post this:

I just installed the update, just scanned through a bunch of random presets tagged "wavetable" and holy s*it. Even if I may never find the time to create my own wavetables and whatever, even the presets (<cough cough> shame on me for liking presets!) are incredible. Now let´s see what I´m going to do with all that extra firepower.

Thanks, U-he!

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23238 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:51 am

keel wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:43 am
It seems that Urs can't take any criticism at all :( Why you get so angry, if people tell you that they don't like Hive unison?
I have nothing against people who tell me "I don't like Hive's unison". That's totally okay with me. But that is not what people are doing here.

What I don't like is when people state opinion as facts, but they can't be bothered to prove their bold statements.

User avatar
zvenx
KVRAF
6935 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:51 am

keel wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:43 am
.......

Why don't you stop arquining and rather spend this to improve Hive? Perhaps add new, optional unison engine to Hive? Like I said, Diva's digital osc supersaw is superb. I would love to see that on Hive with stereo spread.

Peace!
Of course the other side is that Hive is what it is. If it doesn't work for you, why not just use the tool that does?
rsp
sound sculptist

chk071
KVRAF
18540 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:53 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:46 am
chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:41 am
So, most of the "artist endorsements" are actually stated by users of the site, not the artists themselves.
Yep, and how do these users learn about those artist endorsements when the manufacturer of the plug-in does not plaster his website with tons of paid-for bullshit?
Again, there are mentions of the used synth in music production videos, and Facebook, or Twitter posts of the respective artists. Which are stated as the source of the info on Equipboard.
Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:46 am
As I said, I did a quick reference between those super popular artists and our database. There were a lot of matches even if none of the super popular artists has any of our products listed.
Ok, fair enough. I guess you know much better than anyone here or elsewhere anyway, who owns your products or not. Even though i'd argue that it's not about owning, but rather using the product. As far as i know, Armin van Buuren owns Zebra 2 as well, even though i never saw it in one of his "The making of track XY" videos.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23238 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:56 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:48 am
So, how is the usual detune knob in Sylenth and other synths flawed?!
I can only answer this in respect of the synths I tried.

By their detune ratios and by their distribution on the left/right side of the stereo field.

They are furthermore flawed by their volume compensation and overall detune adjustment (or, lack thereof) when increasing or reducing the number of unison voices.

Did I answer this before? Ah, yes I did. I hope twice is enough.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23238 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:02 am

chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:53 am
Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:46 am
chk071 wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:41 am
So, most of the "artist endorsements" are actually stated by users of the site, not the artists themselves.
Yep, and how do these users learn about those artist endorsements when the manufacturer of the plug-in does not plaster his website with tons of paid-for bullshit?
Again, there are mentions of the used synth in music production videos, and Facebook, or Twitter posts of the respective artists. Which are stated as the source of the info on Equipboard.
Artist endorsements are self-amplifying.
Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:46 am
As I said, I did a quick reference between those super popular artists and our database. There were a lot of matches even if none of the super popular artists has any of our products listed.
Ok, fair enough. I guess you know much better than anyone here or elsewhere anyway, who owns your products or not. Even though i'd argue that it's not about owning, but rather using the product. As far as i know, Armin van Buuren owns Zebra 2 as well, even though i never saw it in one of his "The making of track XY" videos.
I would not know. We don't hassle our customers in any way. I don't know what it takes to get a mention in those videos. But then again, I guess it's self-amplifying. People make videos about what they think is popular. Just like *you* think Hive is unpopular, you'd do a video about something else.

Look, maybe Hive is unpopular among the EDM crowd. I would not know. So how can you?

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12923 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:03 am

Urs wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:38 am
fluffy_little_something wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:27 am
I see what you mean. Maybe it would help if you named that knob properly, like Sub Tune instead of Semitone.
The unit is semitones. The fractional part of semitones are cents. How would you know which kind of unit it was if we only labled it "Sub Tune"?

On a delay you'd rather have "seconds" where "0.003" is three milliseconds than have it labelled "Time" without any hint at the unit, no?
And I still don't see how one can set the Sub's width and pan separately from the main...
You can't. You don't need to. Use Osc 2.
Since you mention the Juno 60, if I remember correctly it only has a single wave source for economic reasons. From that source all waveforms are derived, thus there is no detune control.
See? We made it better! You have the option. Hurray!!!
I would not have a problem with that as the options are not 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 anyway, but many more values. Odd semitones can't even be dialed in with the mouse wheel alone. In other words, the unit of that control might as well be octaves the way it is :wink:

Well, there are other parameters without proper units, like cutoff not in Hz but in % or some value between 0 and 100 or 127.

Maybe. But I haven't tried making typical Juno 60 sounds on Hive, brass for instance. That would be the test to pass.
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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