So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Digivolt
KVRist
177 posts since 21 Nov, 2018

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:12 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:49 pm
Why is there such a damn need for it now?
What does it matter if others want to sell what they bought ?

As customers we're already screwed by incessant DRM that does nothing to stop piracy and we're supposed to accept buggy/pissy software because "software", not to mention if we buy a plugin and it stops working due a plethora of reasons we don't get a refund

So why shouldn't we be able to sell the license we paid good money for ?

funky lime
KVRian
1229 posts since 17 Sep, 2002

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:23 pm

Digivolt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:44 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/ to be honest
Just beware, that place is full of misguided "advice" from unqualified, armchair lawyers.

Many real lawyers tend to charge money for genuine legal advice, rather than giving their services away for free on an anonymous forum.

chk071
KVRAF
18153 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Digivolt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:12 pm
So why shouldn't we be able to sell the license we paid good money for ?
Ask the companies about someone called "TheoM". ;)

Ploki
KVRist
302 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:25 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:25 pm
Digivolt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:12 pm
So why shouldn't we be able to sell the license we paid good money for ?
Ask the companies about someone called "TheoM". ;)
care to elaborate?

chk071
KVRAF
18153 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm

Not sure if i'm allowed to. Let's just say he's sort of the spearhead of headless consumerism, and probably drove most of the support workers of the respective companies into madness. Because if they said "No, the software is NFR", he didn't accept it, and, apart from some other things, threatened to drag them through the mire in internet forums or on social media. Which made most companies bow down to his will.

Frankly, not the way i would want to be. Actually, it is very counterproductive, because there's a lot of work for a single entitled customer. A lot of work means a lot of cost, which has to be allocated on the other customers (what else?).

User avatar
commodore
KVRist
274 posts since 19 Feb, 2013

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:32 pm

vurt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:41 pm
you might randomly get kicked in the nuts while buying liquor at the corner shop :o
lol.. thank god I don't drink

.. so I'm good to go? :)

Ploki
KVRist
302 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 pm

wow, a quick search later TheoM seems to be legendary around here

User avatar
harryupbabble
KVRian
1281 posts since 20 Mar, 2012 from Babbleon

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:02 pm

Speaking of nuts:

How come the turtle evolved to have a shell and yet testicles didn't?

And also, the shark had 400 million years of evolution over humans. Are sharks under-achievers?

And how come T-Rex's hands are so small, small as in not huuuuuuuuuuge?
ah böwakawa poussé poussé

Digivolt
KVRist
177 posts since 21 Nov, 2018

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:25 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:25 pm
Digivolt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:12 pm
So why shouldn't we be able to sell the license we paid good money for ?
Ask the companies about someone called "TheoM". ;)
His behaviour isn't any reason for why we all shouldn't be able to sell our licenses but I'll leave it at that as I don't think we're going to agree

chk071
KVRAF
18153 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:31 pm

Digivolt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:25 pm
His behaviour isn't any reason for why we all shouldn't be able to sell our licenses but I'll leave it at that as I don't think we're going to agree
I guess. Let me add though that you didn't at all take position towards the arguments i gave, like, more work and cost for the companies, effectively making the software or plugins more expensive. Because that's what inevitably happens when every company allows resale, without limitations. U-he, for example, has a 15 € license fee, when you sell the plugins before you owned it for 9 months. Guess why.

Anyway, as you said, we won't agree on this. So, there's really no need to discuss further. You view it strictly from the customer's point of view, i try to see the bigger picture (which is very relevant for the customer side as well). That's the main difference really.

Digivolt
KVRist
177 posts since 21 Nov, 2018

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:53 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:31 pm
Digivolt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:25 pm
His behaviour isn't any reason for why we all shouldn't be able to sell our licenses but I'll leave it at that as I don't think we're going to agree
I guess. Let me add though that you didn't at all take position towards the arguments i gave, like, more work and cost for the companies, effectively making the software or plugins more expensive. Because that's what inevitably happens when every company allows resale, without limitations. U-he, for example, has a 15 € license fee, when you sell the plugins before you owned it for 9 months. Guess why.
I have no issue with them charging an admin fee (obviously costs staff money to either create an automated system or do it manually) and obviously happy when they offer it for free

When you imagine the resources that are wasted on DRM and the zero effect it actually has on piracy, I just can't feel sorry if transferring a license of someone who actually paid is awkward for them to do

chk071
KVRAF
18153 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:12 pm

Zero effect? Show me the working copies of Cubase. Show me the working copies of Reason since version 5.

Sorry, that's not an argument. Effective DRM IS effective. I don't know why people keep on repeating such false arguments.

Ploki
KVRist
302 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:17 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:12 pm
Zero effect? Show me the working copies of Cubase. Show me the working copies of Reason since version 5.

Sorry, that's not an argument. Effective DRM IS effective. I don't know why people keep on repeating such false arguments.
True.
Also show me piracy in Germany compared to eastern europe where it's not enforced. :D

It's also fun where effective DRM is also functioning properly, ironically melodyne (which i had obtained from non offical sources to test) worked better than the official copy i have now. figures

edit: don't get me started on elicenser or iLok. I wanna kill myself. pace should burn in hell

funky lime
KVRian
1229 posts since 17 Sep, 2002

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:26 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:12 pm
Zero effect? Show me the working copies of Cubase. Show me the working copies of Reason since version 5.

Sorry, that's not an argument. Effective DRM IS effective. I don't know why people keep on repeating such false arguments.
Some DRM is effective. A lot of it isn't.

All DRM leads to more work for devs, which means higher operational costs, which means higher cost and more inconvenience for (legit) end users.

It's also effective at driving away potential customers. I'll never use anything related to Pace again, personally. And I know I'm not alone there.

They don't want me stealing it? That's fine, obviously. But they also don't want me buying it either, from my perspective anyway.

User avatar
jacqueslacouth
KVRian
887 posts since 18 Nov, 2004

Re: So will reFX sue me if I use someone elses Vanguard serial?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:26 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Ask the companies about someone called "TheoM". ;)
TheoM was a deadset tool. I have never been stuffed around so much in my friggin life, with him backwards and forwarding on a (HW)synth he was (supposedly) buying from me.

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